11693 515JSAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 January 5, 2005 8 9:30 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 and a jury 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY, 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER, 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO, 17 ANTHONY BARKOW, 17 ANDREW DEMBER, 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL, 19 BARRY M. FALLICK, 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR, 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE, 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID STERN, 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE, 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116700 515JSAT1 1 (By Order of the Court, Pages 11694 through 11699 are 2 sealed and under separate cover) 3 (In open court; jury not present) 4 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Let's bring in the 5 jury, please. 6 (Jury present) 7 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Good morning, 8 ladies and gentlemen. 9 THE JURY: Good morning. 10 THE COURT: As always, it is good to see you all. We 11 are going to continue with summations. Please remember that 12 all of my instructions continue to apply to all of the 13 summations of counsel and my instructions on the law. 14 MR. PAUL: Yesterday, I discussed with you certain 15 areas of the evidence as presented in this case. We touched 16 upon the SAMS, we talked about the peace initiative, and now as 17 I explained to you when we broke up, the areas of evidence I 18 was going to discuss with you, we are now getting into the area 19 of the fatwah. Let's talk about this fatwah that was written 20 in Sheikh Rahman's name back in October of 2000 and which we 21 certainly heard so much about. 22 When I first spoke to you regarding this ghost-written 23 fatwah, which was written by Taha, with the assistance of Ahmed 24 Sattar, I told you then during my opening that the words were 25 hateful and angry. That hasn't changed. No matter how many SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116701 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 times you look at the statement, the words are filled with both 2 hatred and anger. That is not up for questioning or dispute. 3 I also told you, as with so much in this trial, that 4 the only way to fairly evaluate this statement was to put it 5 into some context of what was happening in the Middle East 6 during this particular period of time. 7 As Ahmed Sattar testified himself, at the end of 8 September 2000, Ariel Sharon, who at that time was not the 9 prime minister of Israel, but the hardline opposition leader, 10 announced that he was going to visit one of the holiest places 11 in all of the Muslim word, the Al-Agsa Mosque, and this was 12 considered by most muslims to be nothing more than a clear 13 provocation on the part of Mr. Sharon because not only did he 14 show up there and announce that he was going to be there, he 15 showed up with the arrival of a thousand or more Israeli 16 soldiers. 17 In the eyes of the Muslim people around the world, it 18 was made to look like an invasion. This was clearly done to 19 provoke and instigate a reaction on the part of the 20 Palestinians, and it achieved its goal. There were 21 demonstrations everywhere; the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt, even in 22 Saudi Arabia, where demonstrations are forbidden. This 23 so-called visit was broadcast all over the world, and to Ahmed 24 Sattar and many others just like him, this was considered to be 25 nothing less than a violation of their holy site. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116702 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 The Palestinians protested with demonstrations, and 2 the only means available to them which they had was by reacting 3 and throwing stones at the Israeli soldiers who had guns, and 4 the result of this uprising was terrible bloodshed, and we 5 heard about some of it. There were 73 Palestinians killed 6 within just two days. Ahmed Sattar, like so many others, sat 7 glued in front of his television watching in horror as the 8 terrible news reports came forward of so many being killed and 9 injured. 10 Some of you even may remember back then when the news 11 of these events were appearing daily on the television, reports 12 and news footage showing Palestinian kids throwing rocks and 13 Israeli soldiers responded. 14 The senseless violence of what was taking place in the 15 Middle East was displayed each day on the TV. As difficult as 16 it is for anyone to watch news such as this, try, just try to 17 imagine how it must have been for someone like Ahmed Sattar, 18 who, as you learned from just listening to him on the witness 19 stand, is someone who personally feels the pain and suffering 20 of those who are oppressed. 21 Try to place yourself back then when this was all 22 taking place, and though we cannot turn the clock back and 23 actually watch the news footage that was taking place and all 24 the reports that were going on, just imagine as if all that was 25 not horrible enough, there were these national news broadcasts SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116703 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with the now famous footage of a very young boy being cradled 2 and covered by his father against the wall where the shooting 3 that was going on. 4 Some of you may even recall back to that footage. You 5 may very well remember seeing that yourself, and what it showed 6 was a father or a man with a young boy against a wall, hovering 7 over his son, and there was clearly shooting going on because 8 you can tell by the shots whizzing by and the father holding up 9 his hands to stop, please stop, whatever you do, and it 10 continued. 11 He was praying, obviously, for the shooting to stop 12 out of fear of being shot himself and certainly his kid who he 13 was hovering over and trying to protect. This was the footage 14 that was displayed. Unfortunately for the scene next in the 15 footage, first the child and then the father being shot and 16 killed. 17 We always hear how a picture is worth a thousand 18 words, and this sad report, with all its terrible pictures, was 19 broadcast time and time and time again throughout the world. 20 It had a dramatic impact on anyone who viewed it. 21 We know from Ahmed Sattar that he actually saw this 22 news live while it was unfolding, and it simply compounded the 23 pain he was already feeling for those who had been killed and 24 wounded. 25 He testified that he watched all the news, including SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116704 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 this footage, and how horrified he was by all of it. Seeing 2 this innocent young boy, about the same age as Ahmed's own son, 3 saddened him. The sadness grew into despair and hopelessness, 4 which then turned to anger. 5 For Ahmed Sattar, as he sat at home watching the news, 6 glued in front of the TV, his anger at the futility with which 7 the Palestinians attempted to fight against the Israeli Army 8 was fueled by the frustration he felt from the silence of not a 9 single so-called Arab leader coming forward and speaking out 10 against this outrage, not one. 11 We also know from a phone call that he had with his 12 friend Nasser Ahmed, on October 6, 2000, how he was reacting, 13 how he had reacted to all of the news being broadcast during 14 this entire period that he was watching in front of his TV. 15 MR. MORVILLO: I am referring now to the Defense 16 Exhibit AS 5 T. Again this is a conversation telephone call 17 between Ahmed Sattar and Nasser Ahmed. It says Al Moussary, I 18 referred to him as Nasser Ahmed, which is the name he goes by, 19 Nasser Ahmed, yes, the people were fuming with anger. Ah-huh, 20 ah-huh, people are extremely furious and angry. I mean, of 21 course, of course, the entire Arab world is furious. I have 22 been, I've been watching the news coming from everywhere, from 23 Egypt, from Jordan and from the Emirates. There are 24 demonstrations in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia. These Saudis, I 25 mean Nasser speaks, Sattar responds. No no, I've been, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116705 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Saudi authorities are strict. In other words, they don't 2 allow -- he continues. Yes, they don't allow something like 3 that to take place. However, they cannot control the 4 situation. Nasser Ahmed says looking at the child while he is 5 dying is something impossible, I mean -- Sattar, but it is not 6 the child alone. Nasser Ahmed. This is going on, Sattar. Abu 7 Ahmed, but, but, but they saw him dying on television, they saw 8 him dying. You haven't seen it? You don't know about it? Was 9 it shown on American television? I am watching Al-Jazeera. 10 Nasser: No, they didn't show it. Sattar: They put pictures, 11 they put pictures of the boy when he was alive, alive and his 12 father was telling them, was telling them, "enough, enough," 13 No, no I am watching the news. Back to Nasser. He 14 was telling them, "enough, enough. We are --" 15 He was waving his hand like that. After that he told 16 him that the boy had died, the boy had died. I mean, the boy 17 was, the boy was talking to his father. He was crying. Later 18 a stream, a stream of bullets shot with a rifle, and you know 19 what? The father was silent and the boy was silent. Nasser: 20 Bad news. It was on Al-Jazeera, right? Sattar? What, Sattar. 21 Yes, on Al-Azhar. 22 Continuing on, Sattar says yes, now they have Hosni 23 Mubarak. They're showing the demonstrations that took place at 24 Alasar. Too many demonstrations walked out from Alasar. 25 However, they only allowed them. They only allowed them to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116706 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 report certain things. They showed Hosni Mubarak as he was 2 visiting, as he was visiting wounded Palestinians. Nasser: 3 Where did that take place? Sattar: They moved him, they moved 4 him to Egypt, to Egyptian hospitals. The hospitals won't have 5 enough room for thousands of wounded people. Nasser: Bad 6 news. Sattar: Thousands until now, today, 11 people were 7 killed. 8 It was after seeing the visit of Ariel Sharon to the 9 mosque and the aftermath of the violence that occurred that 10 Ahmed Sattar has a telephone conversation with Taha, who had 11 called to discuss the situation in the Middle East. It was 12 decided at that time that Taha would write something, a 13 statement in the name of Sheikh Rahman. 14 Within a very short time Taha wrote and forwarded to 15 Ahmed a fatwah, a religious edict, which called for the killing 16 of Jews. Though Ahmed did not have any role in actually 17 writing this fatwah, he did choose to change a few words after 18 he had received it from Taha. He changed the title to read 19 from, "to kill the Jews," to, "to kill the Israelis," which I 20 suppose somehow in his mind at that time was in some way making 21 this statement directed more at what was happening in Israel 22 and toward those who are killing Palestinians. 23 He also removed a reference to Americans or the United 24 States which was in the body of the statement. Ahmed testified 25 that he certainly is not without fault here since he admits to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116707 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 encouraging Taha to write the edict in the first place. 2 Once written, Ahmed send it on to Al-Jazeera in 3 London, who put it on his web site. It was disseminated here 4 in New York in a public protest. Ahmed testified how upset and 5 angry he was during this entire period of time, and that is 6 evident from Government Exhibit 1185 S. This was a 7 conversation, as you may recall, between Ahmed Sattar and his 8 friend Musa. I am sure you remember it was during this 9 conversation that Ahmed cursed when somebody had questioned 10 whether Sheikh Rahman really issued such a fatwah. Did this 11 really happen? Is this really from him? 12 We sat here and listened to over 220 intercepts of 13 Ahmed Sattar, and I guarantee you you can listen to the balance 14 of the 85,000 intercepts, though I would never do that to you, 15 ever. We would not ever hear so much as a curse word from 16 Ahmed Sattar, not once. This only shows and indicates the 17 emotional state that Ahmed Sattar was in during this period of 18 time. 19 In that conversation, he also quoted from the Koran, 20 and as you saw the verse comes, this particular verse comes 21 from a series of verses that tell Muslims how to react to 22 someone who transgresses against them. Ahmed Sattar was using 23 this Koranic verse in this conversation to put the fatwah into 24 context. Something the government never chooses or wants to 25 do. He told you how his Muslim faith as expressed in how this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116708 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 verses teaches one not to create a fight or be the aggressor, 2 but only to fight back against the aggressor and those who 3 choose, they choose to persecute. 4 He told you that he never advocated any violence 5 unless in self-defense. Just like everything else in this 6 case, you cannot isolate, you cannot pick apart, you cannot 7 take a statement or a conversation or even a verse from the 8 Koran and take it out of context, you just can't do that. 9 This verse, just like the fatwah itself, has to be put 10 into the context of both what was happening in the Middle East 11 during that particular time in late September and early October 12 of 2000 and the an Arab-Israeli conflict that continues to go 13 on to this very day. 14 Several times, I counted at least two times, perhaps 15 there were more, Mr. Dember attempted to argue in his summation 16 that the fatwah, "standing alone is a solicitation of 17 violence." That is Mr. Dember. He was deliberately, ladies 18 and gentlemen, taking the statement out of context from which 19 it took place. Even the indictment itself, the indictment 20 itself reads that this fatwah was written, "in response to 21 recent events in the Middle East." 22 Mr. Dember chose to ignore that and to minimize, as 23 the government chose to do throughout the context in which the 24 statement was made, and he chose to ignore the most important 25 issue of which you will have to decide, which is the intent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116709 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with which it was made at the time, the intent of Mr. Ahmed 2 Sattar. 3 As Ahmed himself told you and as unfortunate as it may 4 seem, this is how the Arabs and the Israelis communicate. An 5 Israeli will stand up and shout kill the Arab, kill the Muslim, 6 or an Arab will stand up and shout kill the Jews. This is the 7 everyday rhetoric that is used by all who have lived through 8 this conflict for decades, people killing and calling for the 9 killing of others. That is what is going on. 10 I suggest to you that this kind of ugly, hateful and 11 angry words are still just words, and they're a by-product of 12 the anger and war that rages on in that part of the world and 13 has for decades. 14 By the way, was there ever once any reaction to this 15 fatwah in the Middle East or elsewhere? No. Did the Islamic 16 Group or anyone else ever engage in any violence against 17 Israelis or Jews in response to this fatwah? No. 18 Was it Ahmed Sattar's attempt to have the fatwah 19 increase the risk of violence towards Jews or Israelis? No. 20 What was Ahmed Sattar's true intent and reason for 21 issue the fatwah in the name of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman? 22 There were really two reasons: The first, as he said, was to 23 keep the Sheikh's name out there in the public. It was a way 24 to let the Muslim world know that Sheikh Rahman is still alive. 25 He may be isolated, he may be removed, but he's alive and not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116710 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 completely isolated from the world events that were taking 2 place. 3 The second reason was that Ahmed himself felt that 4 somebody needed to speak out against what was happening to the 5 Palestinians during this time. None of the official Arab 6 leaders in the area were saying anything. Ahmed Sattar is a 7 firm believer that when atrocities are committed against those 8 who are oppressed, the great leaders should stand strong and 9 speak out against the oppress source. This was clearly not 10 happening. 11 In fact, there had been complete silence from the Arab 12 leaders. It was Ahmed's belief and his intent that this edict 13 from Sheikh Rahman was to provide a voice on behalf of those 14 who have no voice of their own. 15 What else was Ahmed's true intent when he helped in 16 the writing of this fatwah? Let me refer to you his own words 17 to explain that question. He told you this in his testimony. 18 I am referring to Page 10,212 of the trial transcript, 19 beginning at line 5, where he is being questioned about the 20 fatwah, and I quote: 21 "Q What was your intent? 22 "A My intent? My intent was just to scream loud, to cry. 23 This was my intent. In my opinion, the Palestinians were the 24 victims. The Palestinians, they had been slaughtered, they had 25 been killed. When the victims scream and say I am going to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116711 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 kill you, he is still the victim. He is not going to do 2 anything. He is just crying and screaming. When I saw that 3 boy being shot, when I saw 72 Palestinians being killed in two 4 days, hundreds being wounded, when I had seen that, I screamed, 5 I cried and I said I will kill you. I did not mean to kill 6 anybody. I didn't want to kill anybody. I was just crying. 7 That's what I was doing." 8 And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the true intent or 9 state of mind of Ahmed Sattar when he assisted in the writing 10 and his dissemination of the fatwah. It was never, ever his 11 intent to solicit violence, nor was it ever his intent to 12 conspire to kill or Kidnap others. 13 He told you on reflection that looking at the words 14 Taha used and admittedly adopted by him with a few changes he 15 made, he should not have allowed his emotions and frustrations 16 of the moment to take over, for that is not his usual nature, 17 and you certainly saw him on the witness stand. You gather 18 what your opinion was with regard to his demeanor. Indeed, 19 after he cried out from the statement, it was all over. Once 20 his anger and cry was released, it was over and forgotten. 21 The fatwah, the fatwah was never mentioned or 22 discussed again by Ahmed with anyone after a conversation he 23 had with Taha on October 16th, 2000, only 10 days went by since 24 the file had been used. It was never discussed against because 25 the moment of anger and frustration had passed. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116712 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Looking back at that time and how even to this day 2 these kind of hateful statements are common and unfortunately 3 issued on a regular basis by Jews and Arabs alike, with nothing 4 ever happening, there would be nowhere that Ahmed Sattar would 5 or could ever consciously believe that this fatwah would be 6 received by anyone as soliciting violence or as part of a 7 conspiracy to kill or Kidnap anyone in a foreign country. 8 As he testified, it was never his intent for anything 9 to happen from the issuance of this statement except that by 10 screaming out, it would urge people to question what was going 11 on as well as to alert others that at least one Arab leader, 12 Sheikh Rahman, was aware of what was happening and was speaking 13 out against it. 14 That, ladies and gentlemen, is putting it in context 15 of what was happening and why this fatwah was issued. That is 16 exactly what the evidence shows. It was passed, it was over, 17 it was done. It had been released. He had released his anger 18 and frustration, and that is exactly what the evidence 19 supports. It was never addressed again. 20 Let me now talk about another area of evidence which 21 you heard so much about in Mr. Dember's summation. It is the 22 area of Atia. Let me first remind you that all of the 23 conversations with Atia took place over almost an entire year. 24 We're not talking about lots of conversations going back 25 intensely between the parties between a matter of a few months. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116713 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 In fact, it begins in January of 2000, and Atia, as we know, 2 gets killed in October 2000. 3 So we're talking about a period of approximately 10 4 months going by and, in fact, as you heard, months actually 5 passed before there were any conversations or intercepts 6 between Mr. Sattar and anybody connected or having to do with 7 Atia. 8 Who is Atia, and what was all of this about with 9 regard to Atia and the evidence concerning him? Really, what 10 it all boils down to is that Atia was a fugitive and he wanted 11 help and he wanted to get out of Egypt. That is what all of 12 this is about. That is exactly what was going on. 13 And Ahmed Sattar attempted to help him get out of 14 Egypt. He was placed in that position. He didn't seek it. 15 That is what he did, and that is what the evidence shows. 16 At first it all seems very confusing. In fact, as I 17 recall, Mr. Morvillo spent almost an entire day during his 18 cross-examination of Ahmed Sattar to show that people were 19 using different names, telephone numbers and locations to 20 communicate with each other. Of course they were. These were 21 people on the run. These were people afraid of being caught. 22 There is no issue there. Of course they were giving 23 names that weren't theirs and phone numbers to be contacted. 24 There is no issue that Atia was not a fugitive trying to get 25 out. When you get right down to all of this, these people who SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116714 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 were using these codes and clearly expressing their concern 2 that their lines might be tapped were scared, scared they could 3 be located, scared they would be found, scared that they would 4 be killed. Why was all of this happening? 5 Because Atia was an individual who we came to learn 6 was a fugitive from the Egyptian regime. He was on the run. 7 He needed help to get out. He was heading south along the Nile 8 and toward the Sudan in order to make his escape from what 9 would otherwise be certain death at the hands of the Egyptian 10 authorities. 11 He was running and hiding and being helped by others 12 along his route to freedom. In his efforts to escape Egypt and 13 the obvious difficulty in communicating with others, he and his 14 colleagues attempted to reach out to those outside Egypt for 15 assistance because they were desperate for money, guidance and 16 help. 17 As I said, these calls began in January of 2000, any 18 call to Mr. Sattar. In January of 2000 when Ahmed Sattar 19 received that first phone call from someone by the name of 20 Hani, that is when this all begins. Hani told Ahmed that Salah 21 Hashim, who, as we came to learn, was a member, Islamic Group 22 leader in Egypt and one of the architects of the peace 23 initiative, had given Ahmed's telephone number to him, to Hani, 24 to help make contacts. Hani went on to explain he was reaching 25 out on behalf of another who he said at the time was his father SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116715 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 and who needed to speak to Mustafa Hamsa. 2 Ahmed did not have a direct way to contact Hamsa. 3 Hamsa, he was assured that Hani he would send a message to 4 Hamza, which he did. When he called back, he had no idea who 5 Hani was or the man Hani was calling on behalf of was of. This 6 was conveyed to Hani a few weeks later. These communications 7 continued with Hani being more and more frustrated with Hamsa's 8 refusal to speak with Hani. Hani asked if Ahmed would help in 9 contacting Taha, that which Hamza was not willing to do. What 10 became clear to Ahmed Sattar from these first calls right from 11 the beginning, Hani was sounding more and more desperate and in 12 need of help. 13 Several months went by, and in April of 2000, Hani 14 called again. This time he was begging to speak to Hamza, and 15 when told of this, Hamza finally agreed. Ahmed connected Hamza 16 for Hani, for no other reason than he understood Hani's dire 17 situation. It is clear during this conversation that Hamza had 18 absolutely no idea who Hani was, nor who Hani was calling on 19 behalf of. Namely, this individual called Atia, or as we 20 learned his full name, Alaa , Abdul Raziq Atia. 21 This conversation was also referred to in Mr. Dember's 22 summation but he didn't read this part of that conversation. I 23 am referring now to Government Exhibit 1068, which is a 24 conversation on April 1, 2000, between Hamza and Hani, and this 25 shows you how many months had passed between the time Hani SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116716 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 reached out to Sattar for help that started in January and now 2 this is the first time Hamza knows it is desperate, Ahmed is 3 telling him that, he finally gets a chance to speak to Hani. 4 Hamza: May I talk to brother Alaa, please? 5 Unidentified male: Alaa who? Hamza: Alaa Abdul Ra, meaning? 6 Alaa Abdul Raziq Atia. 7 Okay. Here he is, Mr. Hani. Hani: Hello. Hamza: 8 Hello. Peace be upon you. Hani: Are you okay? Who am I 9 talking to? 10 Hamza: May God bless you. Hani: Who am I talking 11 to? Hamza: The people you have asked to talk to, ha? Hani? 12 Oh, how are you? How are you doing? Hamza: May God bless you 13 and keep you. How is everything? How are things? Hani: Ah, 14 anyway, let me introduce myself to you. Hamza: Go ahead. 15 Hani: I am Hani. Ah, Hani. I was sent to you by the person 16 you called the other day, Mr. Alaa Hamza. 17 Oh, oh oh, yes, yes. Hani: Who he sent me to you and 18 told me to return your call. Anyway I am Hani and I am the one 19 who contacted Mr. Ahmed, meaning Sattar, and I used the name 20 Forza. Hamza: Yes, yes. Hani: I am the one who got the 21 phone number from the engineer, the telephone from Sattar. 22 Hamsa. Good, Good. Hani: I was referring to him by 23 Mr. Alaa, okay so far? 24 Hamza: Good, good, good. It is going to be more 25 comfortable if you coordinate things with the engineer, ha? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116717 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Things will go much smoother, ha, because to organize things 2 with me will be a little difficult, ha? 3 Keep in mind, Hamza is outside of Egypt. The engineer 4 is inside Egypt, clearly someone who can help him cooperate 5 better than Hamsa. Hani: Why? It is going to be also 6 difficult with the engineer. Hamza: Things will be a little 7 complicated with us, ha? Let us know what he is requesting and 8 how we can help out. Discuss things and God willing will reach 9 a solution at the end. Hani: Mr. Alaa was trying for a long 10 time to contact Abu Nasser. Hani: Or Alaa -- and Mr. Alaa -- 11 yes. Hani: I will talk openly with you now, so later we'll be 12 on sure ground. Hani: Yes. We have been in the contact with 13 the engineer for a long time now, 15 months ago. Hamza: Yes. 14 Hani: And he is good to deal with. I am the one who took 15 Ahmed's phone number, meaning Sattar, from him. 16 Hamza: Yes. But this is not going to work. We 17 prefer to contact you directly. Hamza: Well, it will end up 18 okay, see what, ah, okay, get to the point. No problem. Hani: 19 Now, Mr. Alaa is very tight and needs money. As we know, he is 20 on the run. 21 Hamza: Yes. Hani: He is really very, very tight on 22 money. He went to many people to, you know, ah -- Hamza: We 23 can send to the engineer and he forwards it to you, he will 24 forward to you what you want. You know what I am saying? And 25 then Hamza continues: Yes, but we are going to try as much as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116718 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 we can do. Do you know anyone in Saudi Arabia? Are you in 2 touch with someone there or anywhere abroad? Hani, 3 simultaneously, no we have no contact with anyone at all. 4 Hamza: Ha? Hani: Mr. Alaa did not tell me about anything of 5 that sort. Hamza: Ha? Hani: We need to be in touch now. 6 The most important thing now is the money. Besides, we need to 7 have some interaction. 8 Hamza: We need to -- we should make the engineer the 9 point of contact but in an indirect way, ha? Hani: Yes, I 10 know. Hamza: We will try to tell indirectly to send you 11 something, send you money and so on such he can. Ha? Hamza 12 continues: Do you think Alaa himself can come here or is it 13 difficult for him to do so? 14 Hani: How can he? And then he laughs because the 15 idea is pretty ridiculous, since he is on the run. How can he? 16 Hamza: Ha? It is extremely difficult, of course. Hamza: 17 Excuse me? Hani: It is very difficult, of course. It 18 continues. 19 Hani: But do you know who this man is? Do you know 20 who Alaa is? Hamza: No, we do not. No, we do not know. We 21 can understand in the future by reading between the lines. 22 This is some powerful group, this Islamic Group, when 23 one of the so-called leader, Hamza, Mustafa Hamza, doesn't even 24 know who he is talking with or about. He doesn't know who Alaa 25 Abdul Raziq Atia is. Remember, it is Atia who is supposed to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116719 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 be the head, the head of the military wing of the Islamic 2 Group, and Hamza doesn't even know who this person is. 3 It is obvious from these calls that the Islamic Group 4 was not a group with any organization or structure and 5 certainly not a group with any power to do anything. As Ahmed 6 himself testified, this was also apparent to him. It was 7 during these telephone calls that it became clear to Ahmed that 8 the person Hani was calling on behalf of was a fugitive. 9 Though Mr. Dember told you that there was nothing in 10 any of these calls, even all the way through October, he said, 11 to indicate that Atia was a fugitive and anxious to get out of 12 Egypt. That is hardly the case. I invite you, I implore you, 13 review any number of these conversations and you will see that 14 it was very clear, very early on that these people were 15 desperate for money, in hiding and anxious to get out. 16 Neither Hamza or Ahmed had any idea who the person on 17 the run was. Ahmed understood anyone in Egypt hiding and 18 trying to get out is desperate and looking only to survive. 19 Eventually, as Ahmed testified, he doesn't attempt to find out 20 on his own who this person Atia is. He reads about him and 21 learns he was a militant from the Islamic Group, who was 22 involved in acts of violence against the Egyptian government. 23 Ahmed testified he never fully understood all the acts 24 that Atia may have been committed in the past. It wasn't until 25 this trial, he said, he learned from listening to one of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116720 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 conversations, specifically the conversation in Government 2 Exhibit 1075 X, where Hamza is talking with Atia on April 24, 3 2000. In this call, Atia says on Page 23 of the transcript 4 that, "we did the big matter on our own. We had no link to 5 anybody and nobody told us anything." 6 Do you remember during Mr. Dember's summation he 7 basically spent a great deal of time playing detective because 8 he wanted to prove to you that when Mr. Sattar testified, that 9 he did put that together, he didn't hear or he didn't at that 10 time recall or think what the big matter could be until he 11 listened to it now. 12 Mr. Dember tried to show you how he lied and he 13 basically told you he looked forward to conversations that took 14 place after this. Mr. Sattar is talking to others and he is 15 referring to this conversation and he refers to parts of this 16 conversation like a cell phone reference that took place before 17 this part and some other reference that took place after this 18 part, and this was all to assure you that Mr. Sattar was lying 19 when he told you on the witness stand that he hadn't put this 20 big matter together in his mind or doesn't recall hearing it. 21 Let me just respond to this argument simply by saying 22 that if Ahmed Sattar truly wanted to lie about hearing this 23 comment or putting it together at the time as to what it meant, 24 all he had to say was he heard it, but he had no idea what the 25 big matter was referring to. It could have been a reference to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116721 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 anything. He didn't say that because that wouldn't have been 2 the truth. He knew when he heard it here or listened to it 3 during preparation of this case that's what it must have meant. 4 That is what he put together. 5 Additionally, and perhaps even more telling, and I 6 emphasized this to you, when Ahmed later speaks with Taha and 7 tells him about what he has heard by listening to this 8 conversation between Atia and Hamza, don't you think if Ahmed 9 Sattar had actually heard this and realized that this fugitive 10 Atia was somehow involved in Luxor, the big matter, he would 11 have mentioned that to Taha. 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11722 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 MR. PAUL: Don't you think he might have just said, by 2 the way, you know this guy, who was a fugitive, who is on the 3 run, whose people are calling me and trying to help me get out, 4 this guy was involved in Luxor. It is amazing. He doesn't say 5 that anywhere. There is no conversation referring back to 6 that. Isn't that something that Ahmed Sattar might just 7 remember to tell Taha, of all people, because remember the 8 government's theory is, he is working with Taha, trying to 9 conjure up some way for Atia to commit some terrorist act. He 10 might have just remembered to say that in his conversation with 11 Taha. It might just dawn on him. 12 Mr. Dember's argument just doesn't hold the evidence. 13 Ahmed never has any such conversation with anyone about Atia 14 and his connection to Luxor because he never heard it or put 15 that together until this trial. And even more importantly, 16 even more importantly than all of that, even if Ahmed Sattar 17 had heard and did realize that Atia was talking about being 18 involved in Luxor, you know what? It wouldn't matter. Because 19 as Ahmed himself told you and, more importantly, his Honor will 20 instruct you, knowledge alone is not a crime. 21 In that April 24, 2000 conversation that I was 22 referring to, Ahmed does learn that Hamza sent money to Atia. 23 He also heard Hamza explain to Atia about the peace initiative 24 and the agreed-upon policy set by the shura counsel of the 25 Islamic Group. He tells Hamza that he does not really have a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11723 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 position. Atia tells Hamza that he does not really have a 2 position on the issue of the peace initiative. But he explains 3 that he is committed to follow and support whatever the Islamic 4 Group's policy is and, therefore, he supports the initiative. 5 You know what, ladies and gentlemen? Atia was anxious to get 6 out. He would have said anything to those who he thought might 7 help him to get out. 8 As I mentioned a month later, when Ahmed speaks to 9 Taha, he tells him about the conversation between Hamza and 10 Atia, but there is no mention of Atia's involvement in Luxor, 11 as I said. Remember Hani, who had originally wanted to only 12 speak with Hamza, had later asked to make contact with Taha 13 when Hamza was so slow in his willingness to respond and talk 14 with Hani. Taha was now finally responding to the e-mail that 15 Ahmed had sent him months earlier, many months earlier. Once 16 Taha heard about the conversations between Hamza and Atia, he 17 told Hamza that he wanted Atia's support on the ongoing 18 struggle with the different factions of the Islamic Group of 19 the peace initiative we have heard so much about. 20 Several more months passed. Again, months would go 21 by. On September 4, 2000, a connection was finally made 22 between Taha and Hani. In this conversation, which is 23 Government Exhibit 1167 in evidence, Taha, like Hamza before, 24 explains to Hani about the existing conflict between the two 25 factions. He also tells Hani in this conversation that the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11724 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 work of the Islamic Group should continue if possible. As 2 Ahmed testified, he understood that the Islamic Group was not 3 just a militant organization. It was also a social group which 4 had organized clinics, schools, and had done charity work. 5 Don't lose sight of that. During this entire period of time 6 Ahmed understood Taha to be referring to those who had been 7 calling to stop everything, even preaching. All the clinics 8 and schools had already been closed. 9 And what Ahmed understood from what Taha was telling 10 Hani was that even though there was some kind of agreement with 11 the Egyptian government through this peace initiative, that 12 does not mean that the group should stop everything they were 13 doing in the past as if they no longer existed at all. Ahmed's 14 understanding as to why Taha was talking about the political 15 differences and positions within the Islamic Group to Hani was 16 because of the group's ongoing political struggle and 17 maneuvering. He understood that Taha was always looking for 18 support of his position, which was to press and escalate the 19 rhetoric against the Egyptian government. It didn't matter 20 whether he was trying, as we know he continuously did, to 21 gather moral support for his position through Sheikh Rahman, 22 or, as in this situation, support from other Islamic Group 23 members, such as Hani and Atia. 24 It is also during this conversation that Hani tells 25 Taha that Atia is very anxious to get out of Egypt, and Hani SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11725 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 had sent money and was arranging for Atia to escape into the 2 Sudan. It was Hani's belief that no matter what, those who 3 leave have difficulties and problems once on the outside and in 4 a foreign land. He explains how those who leave in that 5 conversation turn 180 degrees from the way they were while 6 inside Egypt, in terms of adhering to the teachings of their 7 faith. Though he does explain how Atia has a choice and if he 8 wants to leave Egypt, he should, Taha was not recommending it. 9 He was speaking from his own experience of being on the outside 10 and how different and difficult it is. 11 Taha also talks about leading Atia after he gets out 12 of Egypt or shortly before he escapes, neither of which, I 13 should remind you, ever happens. 14 Ahmed Sattar explained at the end of that conversation 15 that he was glad Taha had given his viewpoint to Hani. He felt 16 that it was good for Hani to hear. As he told you several 17 times during his testimony, Ahmed is one who firmly believes 18 that all viewpoints should always be expressed. Doesn't matter 19 whether he personally agrees with any particular viewpoint or 20 not, for that is not what is important to him, and the evidence 21 showed that throughout this case. Didn't matter. Didn't 22 matter to him about the peace initiative in the letters that 23 were going to the Sheikh. That was not important to Sattar. 24 As Ahmed Sattar testified himself -- I'm referring now to the 25 trial transcript and reading at page 10265, beginning at line SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11726 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 16: 2 "Q Mr. Sattar, do you recall testifying at the end of the day 3 yesterday that you were happy that Taha was able to explain his 4 points of view to Hani? 5 "A Yes." 6 Continuing on line 3, 10266: 7 "Q Mr. Sattar, could you just limit your answer to why you 8 cared whether Taha expressed his point of view without 9 discussing the context of the Egyptian government and what was 10 happening in the Egyptian government? 11 "A Okay. I just want him to express his point of view, 12 whether I agree with it or I disagree with it. I believe it is 13 a fundamental right for every human being to be able to express 14 his view. I think I'm so -- I am a product of two cultures, an 15 Islamic culture and an American culture. I've been living here 16 for 23 years. I adore freedom of expression and I will go at 17 great length to guarantee that right to everyone that I know. 18 The right of expression is one Ahmed Sattar has lived 19 and believed in his entire life. He practices and preaches 20 this absolute right, whether as a political activist starting 21 in his community, as a member of the board of directors for his 22 mosque, or simply when expressing his own political beliefs 23 regarding Egypt and the Middle East. During these calls in 24 this time period it was always Ahmed's understanding that this 25 man Atia was a fugitive and very anxious to flee Egypt and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11727 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Ahmed simply was placed in the middle of trying to help him get 2 out. 3 On October 11, 2000, Ahmed Sattar speaks to Taha in a 4 conversation that was introduced into evidence as Government 5 Exhibit 1194X. This is a conversation, as you may recall, 6 where Defense Exhibit AS-18-T was also introduced into evidence 7 and which I submit is a more accurate transcript of this 8 particular conversation than Government Exhibit 1194X. 9 Why do I say this? First of all, just by reading, 10 examining and comparing the two exhibits, put them side by 11 side, please. One is able to see the detail and care that went 12 into the 25-page transcript of AS-18-T compared with what 13 appears to be more like paraphrasing in the less-detailed 14 20-page transcript of Government Exhibit 1194X. You also had 15 the opportunity to hear the testimony of the translator who 16 prepared Exhibit AS-18-T, Mr. Mohammed Muslih. You learned 17 about his impressive educational and professional background 18 and experience. 19 He testified that he listened to this conversation 20 many times during his preparation of this transcript. You only 21 have to look at and read Exhibit AS-18-T to know the care 22 Mr. Muslih took in getting every single spoken word down on 23 paper to make sure it was accurate and correct. 24 He also told you that it was clear to him, after 25 listening to the entire conversation, that Ahmed Sattar was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11728 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 concerned that this "other brother" in this case, Atia, was 2 trying to talk. He had a "predisposition" to talk. Atia 3 wanted to talk about subjects concerning two lawyers, as well 4 as other subjects which Ahmed explained he had no interest or 5 desire to listen to, and he cut him off. That's what 6 Mr. Muslih told you. 7 And I refer now to Exhibit AS-18-T. 8 Sattar: The other brother is the one who said all 9 this talk. However, while talking to the other brother, I 10 sensed that he was -- I mean -- I mean. And he continued 11 anxious about things. I mean, judging. Continuing. I mean, 12 judging from the way he spoke, that he had, I mean -- he had 13 the predisposition and the readiness to the -- to the point 14 where I 15 Sattar: I mean I felt that he was going to open up, 16 meaning to talk, so I cut him off. Continuing. I probably cut 17 him off two or three times, asserting to him in the process. I 18 mean, I told him, the line is not secure. The line is not 19 safe. So I mean -- continuing. Sattar continues: There is 20 another line and I told him and I explained to him. I mean I 21 told him. I'm someone who is not -- continuing, who has 22 nothing to do with the details. I mean, I am someone -- I am, 23 I mean, I am, I am like, like Hisham, like the others, I mean, 24 a go-between, I mean. 25 This conversation took place after Ahmed had spoken SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11729 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with Atia and he is now explaining to Taha about that 2 conversation. He tells Taha that Atia has been waiting for two 3 days and is "out of the water," which is a reference to him 4 being out of his hiding place and exposed. He goes on to tell 5 Taha that Atia is stranded in that city, and he needs help and 6 all Atia wanted to do was to keep talking, because he was 7 anxious about things and had the predisposition and the 8 readiness to the point where Ahmed felt that he was going to 9 open up, so he cut him off. 10 Why is this conversation important? Because it is a 11 perfect example of the government's effort to isolate a line or 12 two from a conversation and ask you to draw a conclusion from 13 this. In this case, it is even more disturbing because not 14 only did they get it wrong as to what was actually being said 15 and being referred to, but they compounded their error by 16 actually placing this particular conversation in the indictment 17 as an overt act in furtherance of Count 2, the conspiracy to 18 kill or kidnap persons in a foreign country. 19 And I refer in the indictment to paragraph 33(e) which 20 reads as follows: On or about October 11, 2000, during a 21 telephone conversation Sattar told Taha that he had spoken with 22 Atia and believed that Atia was eager, ready, and able "to do 23 things," and that he had to warn Atia repeatedly during the 24 telephone call that his telephone was "not safe." This is the 25 kind of misleading inferences and inaccurate charges Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11730 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar had been forced to confront throughout the presentation 2 of the government's case. 3 Did my client have an opinion as to what Atia should 4 do, whether he should leave or stay in Egypt? Yes. He clearly 5 felt that Atia should leave. Why? Both because he understood 6 this was what Atia really wanted, as well as his fear that Atia 7 would otherwise be captured and killed. 8 What was my client's role throughout these many months 9 of conversations involving Atia? Or with those who spoke on 10 his behalf? He viewed his role only, only as someone who was 11 in a position to help him get out of Egypt. This was always 12 Ahmed Sattar's intent. No matter what anyone else's intent was 13 regarding Atia, whether it was Taha's intent, whether it was 14 Hamza's intent, doesn't matter. What matters is that Ahmed 15 Sattar's intent was always to help this person who was a 16 fugitive and in danger of death to get out of Egypt. 17 And what was Ahmed Sattar's role in attempting to help 18 Atia? He was simply a link. If we look to both AS-18-T and 19 Government Exhibit 1194X, you will see that. He is a "link." 20 And a "go between, or someone "who has nothing to do with the 21 details." Ahmed was the link in connecting Atia and his people 22 to those who Atia believed could help him get out and escape, 23 whether that be Hamza or Taha, or anybody. 24 Ahmed Sattar is not a member, ladies and gentlemen, of 25 any group. He is an outsider who had been placed in the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11731 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 position of linking and connecting people through the phone. 2 As he testified, it was not important to him whether Atia was a 3 militant. It was not important to him that Atia may have even 4 previously participated in military activities during the 5 violent period prior to 1997. Ahmed only wanted to help Atia 6 get out of Egypt because he feared that if he was caught, he 7 would be given no chance to survive and would simply be 8 executed by the Egyptian security forces. You know what, 9 sadly, Ahmed Sattar's worst fears were justified because that 10 is exactly what ended up happenings to Atia. 11 After Atia's death it is clear from a conversation 12 Ahmed Sattar had with Yassir Al-Sirri what his reaction was to 13 the sequence of events that led up to the killing of Atia. I'm 14 referring now to Government Exhibit 1205X, which is a 15 conversation that took place on October 23, 2000: 16 Al-Sirri: Hum, you know, an accident took place. I 17 went off the computer a little while ago. I am disappointed 18 and, unintelligible, an accident took place in Aswan, Egypt. 19 Sattar: Help. 20 Al-Sirri: That was last Wednesday. 21 Sattar: What happened? 22 Al-Sirri: The hitmen, the dogs went into a place, 23 they killed two people, wounded one, and arrested a number of 24 people. 25 Sattar: To got we belong and to him is our return. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11732 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Where did you get that from? 2 Sattar continues: Where did you get this from? 3 Al-Sirri: I learned it. 4 Sattar continues: Are you sure of this? 5 Al-Sirri: Yes. 100 percent. 6 Sattar: Two were killed. 7 Al-Sirri: And one wounded. 8 Sattar: One was wounded. 9 Al-Sirri: And unknown people were arrested. The 10 authorities in Egypt aren't allowing the media to publish 11 anything related to this issue. Do you have anything about it? 12 Sattar: Sign. I have someone called, but he said he 13 doesn't know anything. He doesn't know if the brother is in 14 the hospital, or in -- he doesn't know what happened exactly. 15 Sattar continues: I mean he was there. He was 16 supposed to meet with someone, okay. In a certain place, 17 someone was going to meet with him in a certain place and give 18 him money so he can exit, leave. 19 Al-Sirri. Um. 20 Sattar: This meeting didn't materialize. This is why 21 he called him. He asked me to get him Mr. So and so, and eh, 22 and he continues. 23 Al-Sirri says: Do you think Al-Asmar, meaning Taha, 24 was negligent of the issue? 25 Sattar: They were all negligent. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11733 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar again: They were all negligent. 2 Continuing Sattar: Listen. I don't know their 3 internal issues, but the final result is they are all 4 negligent. 5 Continuing Al-Sirri: They are saying there is a plan 6 or something. 7 Sattar: Huh? 8 Al-Sirri: The security source. 9 Sattar: Hum. 10 Al-Sirri: That spoke at the beginning, said there is 11 a plan for attacking and whatnot. 12 Sattar: No plan or anything. God damn him. 13 Al-Sirri: That's what he said. 14 Sattar: God damn him. The man only wanted to get out 15 of the hardship he has. This is what I understood no might, no 16 power, save from God. 17 In this conversational Sirri is telling Ahmed that he 18 had learned about the killing of two people and the injuring of 19 another which took place in Aswan, Egypt. Ahmed realized this 20 is now referring to Atia who he knew was in Aswan. 21 What is Ahmed's reaction to hearing this news? He 22 holds both, both Taha and Hamza, responsible. He says that 23 they were all "negligent" for Ahmed understood that Atia only 24 wanted to get out and was looking for help from anyone to make 25 his escape. Ahmed goes on to say in this conversation, as he SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11734 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 also told you in his testimony: "I don't know their internal 2 issues, but the final result is they are all negligent." 3 What is he really saying here? What does that mean? 4 What he is saying here is, listen, I'm not a member of any 5 group. I'm not interested in all the political backstabbing 6 and positioning that has been going on. That's for you guys to 7 figure out. All I know is, here is a brother who was in 8 desperate straits and in need of help. And for all of you, for 9 whatever pretty reasons you may have had failed him and now he 10 is dead. This conversation shows that Ahmed held no special 11 loyalty to Taha or Hamza. And when he disagreed with them, he 12 said so. They were all negligent. They didn't help. I tried, 13 I tried to help. They failed. 14 This conversation also makes it very clear what 15 Ahmed's understanding or state of mind about whether Atia had 16 any so-called plan to do anything, especially some terrorist 17 act, as the government has suggested and told you and have you 18 believe that. This is obvious from Ahmed's reaction to what 19 was said in the press conference by the Egyptian information 20 minister when they kept referring to this statement that there 21 had been a plan, and said God damn it, there was no plan. 22 Where he, as I suggested, with the usual propaganda in lies, 23 the minister justified the killing of Atia by suggesting that 24 Atia was planning to do some acts in Egypt. 25 How does Ahmed respond to this? As I said on page 20 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11735 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 of this transcript, Ahmed says in response to this news: God 2 damn him, the man, referring to Atia, only wanted to get out of 3 the hardship he has. This is what I understood. In other 4 words, Ahmed's understanding was that there never was any plan 5 to do anything. All Atia wanted was to get out of Egypt and 6 nothing else. 7 One week later, on November 2, 2000, Ahmed Sattar also 8 had a conversation with Taha about Atia's death. I'm now 9 referring to Government Exhibit 1209X. 10 Sattar: I look at the subject from the point of view 11 of an outside person. I don't know this person or that. 12 Taha: Eh. 13 Sattar: I did not live with this or with that. 14 Taha: Oh, yes. 15 Sattar: But talking logically. Logic indicates two 16 things. The brother called. Yeah. The brother called on such 17 and such and day. Yeah. He stayed, stayed, stayed, stayed 18 nine days until eh, he kept in touch with me for nine days 19 until one of you got in touch with him. 20 Taha: Nine days. 21 Sattar: Of course, nine days. 22 Taha: To got we belong and to him we return. 23 Sattar: Of course, nine days. 24 Taha: I did not know that, Sheikh. 25 Sattar: It was nine days, Sheikh. I was waiting for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11736 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 you. I was waiting for you. 2 Taha: It means that I did not call you for nine days? 3 Sattar: You did not call me for one week. You 4 called, eh me, you called me. When did you call me for the 5 first time, if you remember? 6 Taha: I really don't remember, Sheikh. 7 Taha continues: Instead of letting the brothers try 8 to disclose, now you have become the main witness in the case 9 because he is the link, he knows exactly what's been going on. 10 Sattar continues: Because the brother stayed nine 11 days at that place and nothing happened. 12 Taha: Hum. 13 Sattar continues: I told him, meaning Atia: I agree 14 with you. And listen Sheikh. You are the one who is staying 15 there, and you are the one who can foresee what is happening 16 there. I don't know. Yunis does not know, meaning Hamza, and 17 Abu Yasir does not know, meaning Taha. You are the one who can 18 foresee, and you are the one that can make a judgment and you 19 are the one that can decide. 20 Ten days later this conversation takes place between 21 Ahmed Sattar and Taha. This conversation is once again about 22 Atia's death and what led up to it. And just like the release 23 concerning the Sheikh's withdrawal is important support of the 24 peace initiative, people began to blame the icy target, the 25 nonmember, the link, who has no agenda of his own, Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11737 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar. If Ahmed ever did have a position on any particular 2 issue, no one certainly cared to know what it was. That's how 3 unimportant he was throughout. I'm referring to a conversation 4 between Ahmed Sattar and Taha that took place on November 12, 5 2000 and is Defense Exhibit AS-6T. 6 Sattar begins: Yes, I talked to Ahmed yesterday, 7 Abu Yasir: Ahmed who? 8 Sattar: Ahmed, the Sheikh's son. He called. 9 Yasir: I told him, call him yeah. 10 Sattar: He spoke to me yesterday. 11 Yasir: Good, yeah. 12 Sattar: I told him about -- I told him that I was 13 upset about what happened and so on and so forth. The three 14 things that are the brother came and stayed. He is now talking 15 about how upset he is about hearing about Atia's death. It was 16 eight to nine days from the day he stayed until the other one 17 called me, until he wasn't -- on the second or third day they 18 waited for the other one to call again. Nothing. He asked me 19 to call the other brother. I sent to the other brother. 20 He continues: He spoke to him and that was the end of 21 the story. The third thing that's been said contains words 22 that are not true. I didn't talk to him or tell him: "Listen 23 to what this guy is saying" or "don't listen to what that guy 24 is saying." And nothing, and nothing of that sort. That's 25 good. If the brothers wanted, wanted peace of mind, wanted to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11738 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 feel at ease and all, what do they do? Who do they blame? 2 This guy, meaning him. They wanted to blame everything on this 3 guy. And they set their minds to do it and there are mistakes, 4 very big mistakes that were made in that matter. But none of 5 them wants to admit that a mistake was made. The easiest way 6 is to blame someone who is not one of us, meaning the group 7 that will put them at ease. 8 And he continues: He didn't ask anything whatsoever. 9 He showed that he was upset, though, of course. 10 Yasir: He is upset, but I told him, It is not enough 11 that you're upset. You want the people there to know the 12 truth. 13 Sattar: I told him that. I told him. I said to him 14 people, people have to know this. I told him, from the day 15 this happened until today, no one called to tell me what 16 happened as if it was something, the brother's blood was shed 17 in vain, meaning Atia. And no one asked and no one checks what 18 happened." 19 Yasir: Sheikh, they are putting the burden on you. 20 They are putting the burden on you. 21 Sattar: Yes. 22 Yasir: And I, this issue. 23 Yasir continues: All through, all through the letter. 24 He -- I'll send you the letter anyway. 25 Sattar: Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11739 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Yasir: So you can defend yourself with it. All 2 through the letter he says: This guy, God forgive him, did 3 this and that guy, God forbid him, did that, and, 4 unintelligible, the matter, which means that your role in the 5 issue is to do a certain task. 6 Sattar: Yes. 7 Yasir: It is not. This one asks you to connect, so 8 you connect. And he asks you to connect him to this guy and 9 you go ahead and connect him. But you're not an active party. 10 Sattar: Yes. 11 Yasir: The brother tells you, connect me to brother 12 Haytham. You connected him. Connect me to brother Yunis. You 13 connected him. The brother told you, connect me, and you 14 connected him. 15 Sattar: Yes. 16 Yasir: But you're not a party in this matter. You're 17 not giving your point of view because the people don't know you 18 personally. They only know you through the people that are 19 talking. 20 Sattar: True, true. 21 Yasir: The best thing for one is to stay removed from 22 the accusation. 23 This conversation really says it all. It explains 24 exactly the role Ahmed had throughout. He is merely asked by 25 one brother to connect to another so he connects. He is not an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11740 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 active party nor a party in this matter." And he is not 2 giving his point of view because people don't really even know 3 who he is and couldn't care less. He is certainly not a member 4 of anything and if people know him at all, they only know him 5 through those who assisted him in connecting one to the other. 6 What the government has done here, as they did so 7 often, was to ask you to make certain inferences from reading 8 particular conversations and have you read between the lines to 9 conclude that these were really words of violence and action. 10 If, however, you carefully, carefully examine all of these 11 calls and place them together, you will determine the obvious 12 of what was really happening. All Atia wanted was to get out 13 of Egypt and all Ahmed Sattar wanted was to help him get out. 14 Are you asking yourself now, well, if Ahmed Sattar 15 knew he was helping a fugitive, even if Atia was attempting to 16 flee from this repressive Egyptian regime that we have heard so 17 much about, doesn't that nevertheless mean he was aiding 18 someone who he learned was a terrorist? And if so, isn't he 19 then guilty of providing aid and support to a terrorist or a 20 terrorist organization? The answer to that question is quite 21 simply no. For even if you think this, he is not charged with 22 helping or attempting to help someone escape from Egypt. He is 23 not charged with providing support to a terrorist or a 24 terrorist organization. You must only focus on the charges 25 brought before you for your consideration. Don't be distracted SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11741 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 by any of the government's suggestions to the contrary. 2 This might be an appropriate time for a recess, your 3 Honor. 4 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will take ten 5 minutes. 6 Please, please remember my continuing instructions. 7 Please don't talk about this case at all. Always remember to 8 keep an open mind until I have instructed you on the law and 9 you've gone to the jury room to begin your deliberations. 10 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 11 jury room. 12 (Jury not present) 13 THE COURT: At the break the reporter should check out 14 the Live Note. 15 (Recess) 16 THE COURT: Let's bring in the jury. 17 (Jury present) 18 THE COURT: Mr. Paul, you may proceed. 19 MR. PAUL: Thank you, your Honor. 20 Let me now discuss the person himself, Ahmed Abdel 21 Sattar. As I told you in my opening statement, your task is to 22 determine Ahmed Sattar's intent from all of the evidence 23 presented. In order to understand his true intent from all 24 these conversations you have been presented with, you have to 25 both place them in context of what was going on at the time SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11742 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 that he took place, as well as having some understanding of the 2 person himself. 3 Up to now I have attempted as best I could to place 4 Ahmed's seven years of intercepted calls in context for you. 5 At this time I would like to examine with you the person who is 6 speaking during those calls. You had an opportunity to observe 7 Ahmed Sattar on the witness stand for two weeks of examination. 8 During those two weeks you were able to watch him closely and 9 draw your own conclusions about what kind of person he is. You 10 were able to listen to not only what he had to say, but also 11 observe how he said it. In other words, you had a chance, a 12 unique chance to observe his demeanor on that witness stand, 13 his demeanor, meaning the manner in which questions were 14 answered, his body language, his tone of voice. They all 15 assist you in evaluating what kind of person he is and whether 16 he is telling the truth. 17 I only ask, I only ask that you apply your common 18 sense, as you would in making such a decision about anyone, 19 when making your determination about Ahmed Sattar's 20 truthfulness. Think of whether he attempted to answer every 21 single question put to him in an honest, open, and candid way. 22 Think back about all the times Mr. Morvillo would raise his 23 voice during his questioning of Ahmed, perhaps out of his own 24 frustration, and how Ahmed calmly attempted to answer those 25 questions. This is the kind of man Ahmed Sattar is and that, I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11743 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 submit, is the kind of person you heard from and observed on 2 the witness stand. 3 Just imagine for a moment how difficult that must have 4 been for him, as it would be for anyone in his place, with so 5 much at stake. Think about someone having to consider 6 explaining conversations that took place over seven years ago 7 and then facing questions like, what did you mean by that one 8 sentence in that telephone call in 1998? Or what was your 9 understanding of what Taha or Hani or Atia or some other person 10 you may have been talking with meant by that one sentence in 11 this conversation in 1999, or that conversation in 2000, or 12 2001? And all this to be explained while testifying in 13 English, Ahmed Sattar's second language, about conversations he 14 had that were translated from Arabic, his first language, to 15 English. Ask yourself, was he credible? Was he forthcoming 16 and truthful throughout his testimony? Did he come across as 17 someone who made every effort to testify in a truthful and 18 accurate way? You have to be the judges of that. 19 When he got on that witness stand and swore to tell 20 the truth, he took that oath with the same seriousness he had 21 when he swore to the only other oath he ever took in his 22 lifetime. That was the oath he took when he became a United 23 States citizen. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was what Ahmed 24 Sattar was referring to when he said he had sworn to abide and 25 uphold the U.S. Constitution. And you know what? You know SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11744 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 what? No improper sarcastic rhetorical comment made by a 2 prosecutor during cross-examination. None of that with regard 3 to questioning my client's patriotism will change any of that. 4 I submit to you that it was very apparent that Ahmed 5 Sattar was telling the truth throughout his testimony, his 6 effort to be as precise and truthful as possible was obvious, 7 whether he was testifying during direct examination or 8 cross-examination. On the stand testifying for two weeks and 9 there was not one, not one question presented or inconsistency 10 raised with his testimony from any of the evidence which would 11 indicate he was not telling the truth. 12 In point of fact, there were even small things, I 13 would suggest to you, which may have gone unnoticed by all of 14 you that happened during his testimony, which showed exactly 15 how honest and truthful he was throughout. One of these 16 occurred when Mr. Morvillo attempted unsuccessfully, I might 17 add, to raise inferences and improper suggestions in your minds 18 while questioning Ahmed Sattar about whether or not it was true 19 he had conversations with an individual named Emad Salem, the 20 very same individual who was an ex-Egyptian military officer 21 that came to the United States and worked as an informant for 22 the FBI and was paid handsomely, I might add, to do so. 23 He also ended up testifying for the government during 24 Sheikh Rahman's trial where it was learned that he always kept 25 his tape recording on and in his briefcase which he carried SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11745 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with him at all times. You remember when Mr. Morvillo inquired 2 of Ahmed Sattar as to whether he had asked Salem certain 3 questions about sweeping his home for surveillance bugs, or 4 telling Salem that after the arrest of others connected to the 5 first bombing of the World Trade Center, he ran home right away 6 to clean up everything. 7 It is interesting that Mr. Morvillo would raise these 8 kind of questions when he knows full well there is absolutely 9 no proof of this ever happening and no recordings ever produced 10 to the government from Emad Salem to suggest otherwise. 11 Improper inferences raised, ladies and gentlemen. 12 A true test of Ahmed's truthfulness was when Mr. 13 Fallick, on his redirect examination, attempted to ask Ahmed 14 about an article that was written in the Wall Street Journal 15 concerning Emad Salem. Ahmed Sattar certainly could tell at 16 that moment that all Mr. Fallick wanted to be able to do was to 17 read the article in court and then ask him some questions about 18 it. All Ahmed had to say was, yes, I remember reading it, or, 19 yes, I had discussed it with others at the time it was 20 published and I'm familiar with it. That would have -- that's 21 all that was required, to allow Mr. Fallick to go into the 22 article which is apparently all he wanted to do. But since he 23 honestly did not remember having read it, he would not testify 24 otherwise. 25 A small but telling example of how seriously Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11746 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar took that oath to tell the truth and nothing but the 2 truth, Mr. Sattar only told the truth throughout the two weeks 3 of his testimony. So what did we learn about Mr. Sattar from 4 his testimony? We learned that this 45-year-old man grew up in 5 Egypt where he lived with his parents, two sisters, and two 6 brothers. He and his family were all practicing Muslims and he 7 remains a devout Muslim to this day. After completing high 8 school he joined the Egyptian army, where he served for two 9 years, mainly stationed in Sinai. After he was honorably 10 discharged, he returned home to work. 11 At this time, as a teenager, he was more interested in 12 learning about politics and he attended gatherings which 13 consisted of groups with different political positions and 14 beliefs. It was during this important period of his life that 15 he became more attuned to the Islamists who looked at their 16 religion as a way of life. The more politically active he 17 became, the more difficult it was for him to remain in Egypt 18 because simply joining or attending political activities is 19 forbidden and could be dangerous. 20 So with his family's blessings he came to the United 21 States in July of 1982. I believe it is very important for you 22 to have some understanding of my client's background in Egypt 23 as a young man because it is during those early years of his 24 life that his political interests and activism took place. 25 This was the time when he learned and saw firsthand how the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11747 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Egyptian government ruled his native country. He saw how they 2 arrested those who gathered to express politics. Also he 3 explained that violence is, to use his words "a two-way 4 street." And if the government commits violence against 5 others, then this will often be answered with violence. 6 While living in Egypt, Ahmed Sattar, like everyone 7 else, dreaded that unannounced knock at the door by the 8 Egyptian security forces because that could mean being arrested 9 and dragged away for absolutely no reason at all. We even have 10 an example of this in a telephone conversation between Ahmed 11 Sattar and Taha on October 9, 2000, which was introduced into 12 evidence as Government Exhibit 1188X. Ahmed testified about 13 this call. You may remember that this was a call where he is 14 describing how upset and concerned he was about hearing that 15 his Christian neighbor, who lives above his family in Egypt, 16 was arrested at his home by Egyptian security. Ahmed's 17 understanding at the time was that the police must have been 18 looking for him. And when they arrived to find no one at his 19 house, they simply decided to arrest his neighbor. The concern 20 Ahmed felt for his Christian neighbor who had done absolutely 21 nothing wrong, except having the misfortune of living above 22 Ahmed's family, is just an example of the kind of person Ahmed 23 Sattar is. He is anything but anti-Christian and to infer 24 otherwise is wrong. 25 It is also important for you to have some familiarity SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11748 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with the kind of life Ahmed Sattar lived in every day while in 2 Egypt because it was those years that provided the impetus for 3 him to want to see political change in the country he loved. 4 Any change by peaceful means he believes would be better than 5 what has existed throughout his lifetime and before. He prayed 6 for and hoped that change would come for the better. And this 7 is what he came to understand and believe was Sheikh Rahman's 8 primary objective as well. 9 Ahmed Sattar arrived in New York with a tourist visa 10 and ended up living and working at various jobs at a restaurant 11 in Brooklyn. He worked hard while learning the English 12 language by attending Brooklyn College. And in 1984, he met 13 his wife, Lisa Schreiber. Lisa is from Chicago, and a catholic 14 who attended catholic school her whole life. They were married 15 in February 1985 at City Hall and have four children. And you 16 need only to have observed Ahmed Sattar's face while he was on 17 the witness stand as he pointed and introduced each one of his 18 family members to you. You need only to have looked at his 19 face to fully appreciate how proud he is of those children. 20 Eight years after their marriage, without any urging 21 on the part of Ahmed, Lisa decided that she wanted to convert 22 and become a Muslim. 23 In 1988, Ahmed applied and got a job at the United 24 States Post Office. But at first he was hired as a letter 25 carrier and then he became a special delivery messenger. This SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11749 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 job meant that he was delivering all over Staten Island where 2 he was now living. His route included delivering and picking 3 up mail at the coast guard base where navy and nuclear 4 submarines arrived and docked. This job also took him to other 5 restricted security areas at JFK where few people were ever 6 permitted to go. His job at the post office making deliveries 7 to the same restricted areas continued throughout the time the 8 government was investigating and intercepting his phone. 9 Nothing changed during this entire period. 10 In 1990, Ahmed for the first time ever actually saw 11 Sheikh Abdel Rahman. The Sheikh had come to the United States 12 and it was announced that he was going to be a guest speaker at 13 the mosque in Brooklyn where Ahmed prayed. Having lived in and 14 come from Egypt, Ahmed Sattar certainly had heard of Sheikh 15 Rahman because in Egypt he was a very prominent figure. Ahmed 16 knew from reading about him that he was a scholar, having 17 graduated from Al-Azhar University. He also knew he was 18 charged and acquitted of being involved in the assassination of 19 President Sadat. To Ahmed and no doubt many others the Sheikh 20 was an individual who did not fear standing up to the Egyptian 21 government and taking them to task for oppressing their own 22 people, knowing that such statements could in fact mean jail. 23 In 1991, Ahmed was introduced to the Sheikh when he 24 came to give a speech at Ahmed's mosque. It was in 1992 when 25 Ahmed's relationship with the Sheikh began to develop, only SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11750 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 because the mosque had offered Sheikh Rahman a chance to give 2 both lectures and sermons on a more regular basis. 3 During this time, because the Sheikh needed someone to 4 drive him back and forth to the mosque from his home, Ahmed and 5 others were assigned to help him. Since Ahmed had become a 6 board member and more actively involved at the mosque, he would 7 see the Sheikh on a regular basis. He heard some of his 8 lectures and listened to some of his sermons. Most of the 9 Sheikh's lectures and sermons he actually listened to were from 10 tapes that were seized by the government after the Sheikh was 11 arrested in 1993. 12 We all sat through and listened to many of these 13 sermons which the government chose to play in court. How did 14 Ahmed Sattar view these sermons? Obviously, as he told you, 15 given his different background, religion and culture from all 16 of us, his view and understanding of them is quite different. 17 Ahmed testified that though he could understand how some of the 18 fiery language could be interpreted by others as anti-Christian 19 or anti-American foreign policy, or anti-Jewish, he also 20 explained that one has to put them in context. Just like it is 21 difficult to understand the meaning of what is being said by 22 taking one part or one conversation of Ahmed's intercepted 23 calls out of the context, it is also unfair and impossible to 24 understand the Sheikh's words without knowing when they were 25 said, so that they could be placed in some historic context. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11751 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 He explained that one has to know the Arabic language and the 2 Quranic verses that are applied, as well as the historic 3 references being made, such as the bar in Bosnia or the Persian 4 Gulf War. 5 As Ahmed said, if he were to literally accept some of 6 these words, he would have to view his Christian wife and her 7 entire family as well as his brother's Jewish wife as his 8 enemies. Additionally, don't lose sight of the fact that these 9 words were spoken by Sheikh Rahman, not Ahmed Sattar. And as 10 he explained several times, he did not always agree with the 11 Sheikh, nor did he adopt everything the Sheikh had to say. He 12 may have admired him, but, as he told you, he is still only 13 human and makes mistakes. 14 Throughout Ahmed Sattar's testimony he told you how on 15 many occasions he disagreed with the Sheikh, and he told him 16 so. In 1993, when the Sheikh was arrested for an immigration 17 problem, Ahmed, while attending the hearings, was approached by 18 the media. This contact with the media began with his earlier 19 community activities and continued over all the years. Ahmed 20 spoke to the media about events in Egypt, as well as the 21 Sheikh's case. His goal initially was to counter the portrayal 22 in the public eye of Sheikh Rahman being some religious 23 fanatic. He tried to emphasize the Sheikh was a scholar and a 24 religious leader in Egypt. 25 And when Sheikh Rahman was thereafter indicted and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11752 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 arrested in July 1993 for the crimes he finally went to trial 2 on, Ahmed was there to help translate and later be assigned by 3 the Court to assist on the case as a paralegal. It was in this 4 role as a paralegal during the Sheikh's case that he came to 5 work with the entire legal team. This is when he met Ramsey 6 Clark, Lynne Stewart, and Abdeen Jabara. He also came to know 7 the primary translator, Mohammed Yousry, who worked on the case 8 both during and after the trial. Ahmed often visited with the 9 Sheikh while working hard on his case. 10 As depicted in his time sheets that were seized from 11 his apartment and introduced into evidence, you could see that 12 for yourself. When the Sheikh was later convicted and 13 sentenced to life imprisonment, Ahmed continued to work on 14 behalf of the legal team. It now became the goal of the entire 15 defense team to keep the Sheikh's name alive in the world. 16 Committees were set up to keep the public aware of what was 17 happening with the Sheikh. 18 As Sheikh Rahman's prison segregation became more and 19 more restrictive due to the SAMs we heard so much about, it 20 became the goal of all to keep the Sheikh apprised of world 21 events, as well as keeping the world informed of his case and 22 severe prison conditions. Press releases were issued by Ramsey 23 Clark or Abdeen Jabara which informed the public about the 24 Sheikh's case, the conditions of his health, and restrictions 25 during his imprisonment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11753 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Ahmed's role during the trial and even after the 2 Sheikh was sentenced was to continue to communicate with those 3 in Egypt, which included the Sheikh's family, as well as the 4 lawyer, Muntasir al-Zayyat. He also was asked to continue and 5 cultivate his contacts with the media. As one of the 6 individuals who worked at the legal team for the Sheikh, even 7 after sentencing, he coordinated contacts with the press for 8 the lawyers and sometimes issued authorized statements himself 9 to the media. This was arranged because the entire legal team 10 had discussed how even after the SAMs were in place in an 11 effort by the government to completely cut Sheikh Rahman off 12 from the entire world, they should take every opportunity to 13 remind the public both that he is alive and should be treated 14 humanely. 15 These statements to the media were always with that 16 goal in mind. Ahmed spoke out to anyone who would listen about 17 the Sheikh's case and his terrible prison conditions. He had 18 numerous business cards from the media around the world which 19 we all saw displayed. They were seized from his house in 20 Government Exhibit 2081 in evidence. He spoke with the 21 American press and the Arab press. Whether it be about the 22 restrictions placed on the Sheikh or his health, Ahmed believed 23 that people needed to know. 24 Did he at one time in 2001 exaggerate and lie to the 25 press about the Sheikh not being given his medication for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11754 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 diabetes when he knew it was probably the Sheikh that was 2 protesting and refusing to take his medication? Yes. Was this 3 release to the press to serve any other purpose other than to 4 draw attention to the horrific conditions the Sheikh was asked 5 to endure? No. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11755 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Did he issue this release with the purpose in mind 2 that this would cause violence to occur? Absolutely not. 3 Ahmed Sattar's role was to continue to publicize the Sheikh's 4 name so people did not forget him. Any news, any news that 5 included Sheikh Rahman's name was good news, for it meant that 6 people would be reminded that he remained incarcerated and in 7 the United States. 8 Did this mean that Ahmed Sattar agreed with or adopted 9 the statements from groups that made threats of violence 10 calling for the release of Sheikh Rahman? No. 11 Nevertheless, that does not mean that he did not mind 12 reading these stories simply because it was news, and news that 13 mentioned the Sheikh's name served as a reminder to the world 14 of his incarceration. 15 A perfect example of this was when a group or a gang, 16 as described by Ahmed Sattar, called Abu Sayyaf made several 17 ransom demands on the Philippine government, including the 18 release of Sheikh Rahman from an American prison. The fact 19 that this gang called for ransom in exchange for the release of 20 hostages they held says all you need to know about what kind of 21 thugs we are really talking about here. 22 You can see Ahmed's own reaction to this story 23 involving the demand for ransom and release of the Sheikh not 24 just from his testimony as he told you, but from Defense 25 Exhibit AS-3T. In this conversation that took place on April SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11756 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 28, 2000, between Ahmed Sattar and a reporter named Mohammad 2 Al-Shafi'i, there is a discussion of both the publicity of 3 Louis Farrakhan wanting to go visit the Sheikh as well as the 4 demands being made by Abu-Sayyaf. 5 Remember all publicity, all press is good from Ahmed 6 Sattar's standpoint. I am referring now to AS-3T in evidence. 7 Mr. Sattar begins. We have said, we have said that, from a 8 legal point of view, this matter is over, meaning the Sheikh's 9 case. Shafi'i: Ah-huh. Sattar: The legal route has already 10 reached a dead end, meaning the case is pretty much over. 11 Al-Shafi'i: Ah-huh, I do understand that. Sattar: Now 12 pressure has to be exerted. Shafi'i: Okay. Well, will this 13 man be able, I mean be able to open a window of opportunity? 14 And they're now referring to Louis Farrakhan as the man. 15 16 Sattar: Certainly, because he has his weight from a 17 political point of view. Al-Shafi'i goes: Does he really have 18 political weight? Sattar: Of course he has. He has political 19 weigh here. No one can deny that. How many followers does he 20 have? Sattar: What? How many followers does he have? 21 Sattar: He has many followers. 22 23 Can you give me an approximate number? I can't do 24 that. Can we say he has a million followers? Sattar: I can't 25 give you a figure. Okay. Sattar: I can't give a specific SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11757 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 figure. However, I can tell you with certainty that he held a 2 conference, ah, last year, and 60,000 tickets were sold. 3 60,000 in New York alone? No. In Chicago, not in New York. 4 In Chicago? I see. Sattar: Yes. Continuing, and it makes 5 sense for to you concentrate on these points? Sattar: Yes. 6 The points are as follows, and now he is reviewing 7 them. The legal route has been exhausted, meaning the Sheikh's 8 case. There is a need to exert political pressure. He is the 9 only person who has the credentials that will enable him to 10 exercise this kind of pressure, meaning Farrakhan. 11 Sattar: I cannot say that he is the only person who has such 12 credentials. 13 We all used to say in his capacity as a Muslim, he 14 asked to see him and hear the -- Sattar: You will have a 15 chance, you will have a chance to see the facts and in the 16 facts you will find what they wish to receive. 17 Al-Shafi'i: All right. Sattar: And we wanted to look like, 18 ah, statement. That's beautiful. 19 Sattar: There is also the, ah, ah, we may want to 20 know that there is something else that we should mention. One 21 of the things that we should also write about is that there is, 22 a committee was formed and the name of the committee is, "the 23 committee to free Dr. Omar -- Omar Abdel Rahman. 24 Sattar: Of course there is on here, I'm in charge of the 25 chapter here, meaning the committee. I see. Sattar: In New SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11758 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 York. 2 What is the purpose of the committee? Sattar: I see. The 3 purpose, the purpose of the committee is to inform. To exert 4 pressure? 5 Sattar: To inform the, the Muslims. This is the first place. 6 First to inform the Muslims. 7 Sattar: About the case of the Sheikh. 8 About the case of the Sheikh? 9 Sattar: Also, ah, ah, to try to mobilize support, 10 mobilize support for ah, mobilize support and exert political 11 pressure. 12 And exert pressure? 13 Sattar: Political pressure on, on the parties that were 14 involved in or caused the arrest and imprisonment of the Sheikh 15 in order to secure the Sheikh's release. Among the other 16 things you may want that I want you to mention as well. 17 Of course, you heard about the Philippines based Abu-Sayyaf 18 group. 19 Sattar continues: One of the demands of this group is 20 the release of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman. Al-Shafi'i: Yes, 21 this is the Abu-Sayyaf group. 22 Sattar: Haven't you, continuing, read about this matter? 23 Yes. Sattar: They're holding about 21 hostages, and he 24 continues. 25 Of course, I mean concerning this matter, I mean, ah, between SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11759 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 you and me, I mean of course one would not support it, meaning 2 Abu-Sayyaf. 3 Of course, Al-Shafi'i says. Sattar: I'm not going to say 4 this. I mean I'm not going to say that we support or we don't 5 support. I am going to leave it like that. You can simply 6 make a reference to it. 7 Al-Shafi'i: Shed light on it. Sattar: You can make a 8 reference to it. I mean, you can refer to this matter. 9 Ah-huh, and you can say that this group holds 21 hostages and 10 that they are, they are demanding the release of three people 11 here in America. 12 Publicity, ladies and gentlemen, that was the name of 13 the game. This is what mattered, and the fact that Ahmed 14 Sattar clearly did not personally agree with or adopt any of 15 these kind of threats is obvious from these conversations. 16 Between you and me, I don't know what this is. Don't 17 say that. Just put it in your article, put it in your press 18 release Al-Shafi'i is calling for the release of Sheikh Rahman. 19 It is press, it is publicity, letting the people know. 20 Ahmed has repeatedly told you no one should be treated 21 in such an inhumane way, even those convicted of serious, 22 terrible crimes. It is the equivalent in Sattar's mind of 23 locking him in a box and throwing away the key. I do not mean 24 to suggest that the government was doing anything illegal 25 through their use of the SAMS because clearly they were not, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11760 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 but in Ahmed Sattar's mind, it was wrong. It was the 2 equivalent of a slow death, and it was for this reason that he 3 continued to issue press releases, just as the lawyers had done 4 because of both his role as one of the paralegals for the 5 Sheikh during his trial and a spokesperson for Sheikh Rahman 6 after his trial, Ahmed became known in the press by the 7 government and by many an agent. 8 This is how he eventually found himself receiving 9 unsolicited telephone calls from supporters and admirers of 10 Sheikh Rahman from all around the world. He began to hear from 11 people he had never met or ever knew. This is when he began to 12 receive phone calls and hear from members of the Islamic Group. 13 Did he know about any of these people and these individuals? 14 Of course. He is from Egypt and familiar with all the Islamic 15 groups that had existed there. 16 Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over time about Sheikh Omar 17 Abdel Rahman? Yes. Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over 18 time about the Islamic Group? Yes. 19 Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over time about Taha 20 and Atia? Yes. Did Ahmed Sattar ever believe that any of the 21 knowledge he gathered about the Islamic Group, the Sheikh, Taha 22 or Atia would in any way bring about the risk of violence to 23 any person? Absolutely not. 24 When he testified that he never thought that knowledge 25 or knowing things or knowing about things was a crime in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11761 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 America, he was correct. It is not. Listen to the court's 2 instructions on the issue of knowledge. Listen carefully to 3 his Honor, "I caution you, caution you" in his instructions 4 "that mere knowledge or acquiesence without participation an in 5 unlawful plan is not sufficient." You listen to those 6 instructions. 7 Did Ahmed over the years continue to receive these 8 telephone calls and communicate with people such as Taha, 9 Yunis, Alaa Abdul Raziq Atia, Abu Hazim, Al-Sirri and the 10 Sheikh's family, among others? 11 We know that he did from listening to all of those 12 conversations with this trial. Did he continue to connect with 13 the use of his telephone some of these individuals with others? 14 We also know that from the calls presented showing how it often 15 patched calls, at the request of many. 16 Was he anything more than just that, someone who 17 connects one with another or a link, as we heard? As we also 18 have heard and discussed and seen from some of these 19 conversations that he was just that and only that. 20 Did he ask to be placed in this role as the link in 21 assisting individuals to speak with one another? No. Nor did 22 he shy away from doing just that, and he accepted this 23 responsibility very seriously. He didn't just say that on the 24 witness stand. We know this from a conversation that took 25 place on October 25, 1999 between Ahmed Sattar and Mustafa SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11762 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Hamza, and it was during this conversation, where there is a 2 conversation about the peace initiative, about Ahmed Sattar's 3 role. 4 I am referring to Defendant's Exhibit AS-2T. Yunis, 5 which is Hamza, begins: Therefore, I mean, when things like 6 that are said, for example, of course, you undoubtedly realize 7 that different points of view exist within any group of people 8 or with any organized group or any entity. 9 Sattar continues: Yes. 10 Yunis says: Of course, and there is no doubt about 11 that. The man at our end needs to listen to all points of 12 view. Of course, I mean, this was our experience with him. It 13 was inevitable that he was, I mean, they are -- may Lord ease 14 his hardship. He was accustomed to listening to all parties 15 and all points of view, meaning the Sheikh, but to have a 16 certain point of view imposed by our Brother Abu Yasir or by 17 you, for example, is not suitable for, for evaluating a given 18 position. 19 When a statement comes out in the name of the man, 20 when the whole world says that the man doesn't know, I mean, 21 this is something extremely dangerous for an entity like ours. 22 This matters, I mean, I want you to be very sensitive when you 23 handle such matters, and Yunis continues: I mean he shouldn't 24 adopt a position of X or of Y. No, he shouldn't. I mean, for 25 example, if someone conveys such and such a thing, quote, I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11763 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 heard this and that, this point of view, end quote, no. 2 Sattar: It is not a matter of adopting any. Yunis, 3 interrupts, and Montasser says, I swear to God that people over 4 there are favorably predisposed. Where is the favorable 5 predisposition? 6 Sattar: My dear brother, my dear brother, this talk, 7 I do mean for your information, for your information, this 8 talk, this, I mean, this picture that you see which is the 9 question of being favorably predisposed or unfavorably 10 predisposed, I mean, I, also I, for your information, I am 11 detached from all points of view. Yunis: I don't know all 12 points of view, true. All that I know, all that I know, for 13 example, is the talk, the talk. 14 Yunis: In these times of hardship and tribulation 15 such as the times we are living in now? Yes. Especially that 16 you are in a place, in one of the critical places, and the 17 place, the place where the man is at your end, meaning the 18 Sheikh, this is the most important for us, ha? 19 Sattar: Yes. Yunis: Of course, this requires great 20 precision in this matter. The question, I mean it actually 21 doesn't resolve around between me even though, unintelligible, 22 of Abu Yasir gets to me as I told you, before this in a letter 23 pertaining to the thing. 24 However, I mean I counted on you being, I mean you 25 should understand that, or we can talk with you and I can learn SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11764 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 from you about the issues and circumstances and things like 2 that, yes. 3 Yunis continues: Whoever, I mean, whoever talks with 4 you, we have a system, I mean there is more than one party to a 5 system. This means, this means he cannot decide something on 6 his own, ha, nor can anyone else. 7 No. I am aware of that. I am aware of that. I know that very 8 well. 9 Yunis: Even if -- Sattar: I know that very well and 10 that is why, Yunis, yes. And also the Sheikh knows that, knows 11 that really well, yes. 12 That is why you, if you noticed, he referred all 13 matters, I mean if you noticed in his letter, he referred all 14 matters to you, plural form, meaning to all of the brothers. 15 Yunis: Yes, I am aware of that. Sattar: He said, Yunis, this 16 is a very good point. Sattar: I mean he said quote. I am not 17 pleased with, I am not pleased with prevailing conditions. I 18 am not pleased with prevailing conditions, but you are the ones 19 who know where the interest lies. 20 If you notice what he had said, the points and the 21 text, every point is referred to, to you, plural form, 22 and that you should consult, meaning all of you. 23 24 Sattar continues: Amen, the Lord and all the world, 25 amen to the Lord of all the world. This is what I want. This SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11765 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 is what I want, ah, ah, to place to go, you mean my position 2 is, I am nothing else but a go-between. I mean if there is, I 3 mean, for example, if you need to say, to say something, yes, I 4 mean, you will convey it. If another brother wants to ask 5 about something, we shall also convey it. 6 I mean I say that because this is, this is a moral 7 responsibility that is conferred upon me, that is why this is 8 what I should do. I simply convey, convey a certain picture. 9 Yunis: Of course. This is super-excellent. 10 In this conversation it is clear that Hamza is 11 explaining how important Ahmed's position of being a go-between 12 is. It is not his role to express any opinion of his own, and 13 as explained by Ahmed at the end of this conversation, he 14 understood his role and accepted it as his moral 15 responsibility. So you may ask, "is this rule, role, of being 16 a link have any boundaries and does Ahmed Sattar understand 17 what they are and whether they should not be crossed? 18 Yes. An example of this is an allegation brought in 19 this case by the government, as stated in this indictment, as 20 an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy to defraud the 21 United States in Count 1. Quite honestly, ladies and 22 gentlemen, I submit that this is presented to you for no other 23 purpose and reason than the government's continued attempt to 24 bring and direct this case back to America once again. 25 They want you to believe and be scared into thinking SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11766 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 that somehow this case is connected to the security of the 2 United States, and I am referring now to the evidence about the 3 USS Cole. There is no evidence, there is no evidence about 4 this at all, and that is why I say what they're doing is wrong, 5 and you have to be weary of that. 6 Simply what happened is that on October 25, 2000, 7 Ahmed Sattar received a call from Taha, where he is told that 8 it was reported in the news that an Egyptian was responsible 9 for the bombing in Yemen of United States destroyer the USS 10 Cole. 11 Taha was inquiring of Ahmed, whether or not this report could 12 somehow be used in negotiating with the United States 13 Government toward a change in the Sheikh's prison conditions. 14 Taha asked Ahmed whether or not something could be communicated 15 and then faxed to Ramsey Clark in order to begin such 16 negotiations. 17 As Ahmed Sattar testified, this conversation terrified 18 him. He didn't know what, if anything, he should do. This was 19 not just publicized the Sheikh's imprisonment and prison 20 conditions, this was not simply using the media to keep the 21 Sheikh's name alive and not allow the general public to forget 22 about him. This was more, much more. 23 Ahmed knew that immediately. What did he do? He went 24 to a book signing right after this call to discuss it with one 25 of the lawyers who he thought would be there, Abdeen Jabara. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11767 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 He ended up seeing Lynne Stewart at that bookstore. He was 2 scared. He was shaken about the conversation he had with Taha. 3 And Lynne, appropriately, advised him not to even think about 4 getting involved in something like this. He was pleased and 5 relieved to hear this advice, and you know what, ladies and 6 gentlemen? Most importantly, he never did get involved, not 7 once. 8 He never communicated anything about this to Ramsey 9 Clark. He never discussed it further with anyone, Ramsey 10 Clark, anybody else. There is no more discussions with Taha. 11 There is nothing else that Taha says, by the way, did you 12 communicate with Clark? Can we do anything about this 13 concerning the USS Cole? No. That is it. That is the entire 14 extent of the evidence that they have brought concerning the 15 USS Cole, and I say to you the only reason they could possibly 16 have brought this into this case is to do what I have suggested 17 throughout: To scare you. 18 Because if you're thinking of the USS Cole as an 19 American destroyer we all know got blown up, it is not about 20 Egypt, not about the Sheikh's conditions, it is about America. 21 That is the reason they brought this into the case. For 22 Mr. Dember to suggest that the reason Taha was given Yousef's 23 cell number in order to make contact with Ahmed and safely make 24 this call is just nonsense. 25 First, that would assume that Ahmed Sattar somehow SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11768 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 knew the future and he knew this call was coming and he knew 2 this destroyer or something like it was going to happen. There 3 is no evidence to that. 4 Secondly, if Ahmed was so concerned about surveillance 5 and his phone being tapped, he certainly did everything out in 6 the open, didn't he? He talked about the fatwah, he talked 7 about the peace initiative, he talked with people like Atia 8 freely and openly. If he really thought this, if that was the 9 case -- and this shows Ahmed never had any intent to conspire 10 to advocate violence because he thought he was being deceptive, 11 as the government says, and he was continuing to talk about all 12 this stuff. 13 So I guess it is proof that he never had any such 14 intent to advocate violence or commit any of these crimes 15 because the government can't have it both ways. 16 Other than the Sheikh being told about Ahmed having received 17 this call many months later, many months later during a prison 18 visit, that is the entire record of evidence presented 19 concerning the USS Cole. There is nothing more than that. 20 That is why I suggest to you that the only possible 21 reason for this to even have been brought into this trial was 22 to do exactly what I have said: To scare you into somehow 23 believing this case has something to do with jeopardizing the 24 security of the United States. It is the government's attempt 25 to turn the table around and have you believe something that is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11769 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 clearly not supported by any of the evidence. 2 So why, then, you may ask, does Ahmed Sattar allow 3 himself to be used by so many, including members of the Islamic 4 Group, which is a U.S. listed terrorist organization? 5 Why did he assist any of these individuals during 6 these years by being a link, in allowing them to communicate 7 with others? After all, as we've seen, he is not a member of 8 the Islamic Group, he is not a member of any group. 9 We know this not only, by the way, about not being a member of 10 any group, his own testimony told you that, but also an 11 intercepted conversation tells you that. 12 I am referring now to Government Exhibit 1247 X, a 13 conversation between Ahmed Sattar and a reporter by the name of 14 Allan Wagmeister on June 11, 1999, and it begins. 15 Wagmeister: Even if you haven't heard, I want to go 16 over a lot of names of people. Sattar: Okay. Wagmeister: 17 Ah, 'cause you could probably know if this person was, you 18 know, arrested in Albania and returned to Egypt, I am just 19 trying to figure out, you know, I am trying to get the 20 hierarchy down. Sattar: Okay. 21 22 Wagmeister: Of the organization. Sattar: It's 201. 23 What organization? (Laughing) 24 Wagmeister: Well, your group. Sattar: My group. 25 Wagmeister: Yeah. Sattar: Ah, I have no group. Wagmeister: SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11770 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Well, you know what I mean. Sattar: No. I have no group. I 2 am serious. 3 If not a member of any group, why get involved? I 4 think you saw and heard the kind of man Ahmed Sattar is from 5 his testimony. You were able to observe how emotionally 6 involved it can be if it is for the change and it is for the 7 better. You can also look for the answer from an intercepted 8 conversation, and I am referring now to Defense Exhibit AS-14. 9 This is a conversation that took place June 14, 2000 between 10 Nasser Al-Sirri and Ahmed Sattar. This is right after the 11 press release after the Sheikh's position on the peace 12 initiative. 13 Abu Omar, he -- and now he is referring to Abu Sayyaf 14 -- he will try to take from you but he will never give you 15 anything. He will listen to you and so or and so forth, but 16 you won't, especially in a situation like this. Keep in mind 17 that you are undermining him now because of the news situation 18 that has arisen, you are his enemy now. 19 Sattar: He told me, he told me, "Brother, you should 20 have waited until the end of the election campaign." 21 I said to him, "I have been waiting for two weeks. 22 This matter is out of my hands. This matter is completely out 23 of my hands." 24 I said all of this to him, explained to him that I 25 couldn't. I also explained to him I cannot disclose the things SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11771 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 that were exclusively addressed to him, but I made it clear to 2 him when the female lawyer was asked, say this, end quote, she 3 did what she was asked to do. I was asked not to say anything, 4 I didn't say anything. 5 Hum. This portion of the episode is admirable. It is 6 a very good portion. Do you know quoting the female lawyer is 7 very, very excellent. I have, I mean, Sattar, I told him, I, 8 I, I was told not to say anything and I didn't say anything. I 9 am not going to say anything. I only say, I only say to you, 10 but, ah, ah, as far as she is concerned, I cannot. 11 I said to him that all that I can, all. 12 Continuing, Sattar: I said to him, "coordination with 13 respect to what?" I explained to him that coordination can be 14 very difficult. I mean, Sattar continues: I told him that 15 any, any coordination will be difficult, plus the man, the man 16 had a word to say and he said it, end of story, and he 17 continues. He didn't say, "go," we didn't say through the 18 media go, go and destroy the world and do this and that? 19 The man simply said, "Don't pin hopes on it." This is a word 20 of truth, and he is referring to the initiative and the 21 statement that was released. 22 Continuing, Abu Omar: Anyway, regardless of what 23 happens, the purpose behind it was, they didn't believe it was 24 in their interest, or they didn't want to see good relations 25 among Abu Omar, Omar and Abu Yasir, because from their SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11772 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 perspective these three individuals are in one, in one camp. 2 This is, this is the problem. Therefore, they try to -- 3 Sattar: My whole life revolves, revolves, revolves around 4 Islam. My loyalty is focused on Islam. 5 Praise be to God, I don't distinguish between a Muslim 6 who is a member of Al-Equan or a muslim who is a member of 7 Al-Gama'a, or a member of any group, any Muslim who is harmed, 8 whose blood has been spilled is my blood. It doesn't matter 9 whether he is predisposed in this direction or that direction. 10 It doesn't matter if we disagree. I mean, disagreements will 11 not be effective even if there are disagreements. 12 He continues, he will still be my brother. Yes, you 13 know what? I mean, ah, I mean, for your information, I am not 14 interested in being a member of any party. Likewise, I am not 15 interested in, in, in any action that might -- continuing -- I 16 told you before that I have nothing to do with, I mean, I, the 17 hand of fate tossed me on. On, on the stroll because of the 18 case of the Sheikh. May God set him free. 19 This last part of the conversation, ladies and 20 gentlemen, sums up Ahmed Sattar's life. It capsulizes in one 21 short exchange how Ahmed lived and continues to live his life. 22 This explains why he got involved in assisting others. He had 23 no agenda other than to help others. It didn't matter if the 24 person who was asking for help was someone Ahmed agreed with or 25 disagreed with. All that was required was a simple cry for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11773 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 help from any Muslim brother, and Ahmed Sattar felt it was his 2 religious duty to answer him. 3 Was Ahmed Sattar's intent to see change in Egypt 4 through any means even if it meant through violence? No. In 5 fact, as we have shown on Defense Exhibit AS-14T, which is a 6 conversation that took place between Ahmed Sattar and his long 7 time friend, Motesh on February 19th, 2001, what is discussed 8 in this conversation, and you can look at it, is that an 9 opportunity to -- presented itself through Motesh's uncle, who 10 apparently had a relationship with the Egyptian national 11 adviser to President Mubarak, where it had been suggested it 12 could possibly be arranged for Ahmed to visit with his family 13 back in Egypt. 14 And how does Ahmed Sattar respond to this chance to go 15 and visit his family free, just go, no problem, no questions? 16 He refused to take advantage of this for himself because, as he 17 testified, there are thousands just like him in the very same 18 situation. So instead, he immediately looked for a way and 19 used this possible connection toward negotiating a true 20 political settlement with the Egyptian government and the 21 Islamic Group. 22 He reached out to Taha, who then drafted 9 points as a 23 first step toward a settlement between all parties, and you can 24 look at these 9 points. They are in evidence as Defense 25 Exhibit AS-16T. Of course, we know this gesture was refused by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11774 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 the Egyptian government, but I present it to you because it 2 serves as a perfect example of how Ahmed Sattar was only 3 looking for change in Egypt if it could be accomplished 4 peacefully and without violence. 5 The government has brought very serious charges 6 against Ahmed Sattar, and soon you will be asked to evaluate 7 and apply the evidence to the law as instructed to you by the 8 court. In coming to a decision as to the true intent of Ahmed 9 Sattar, don't be fooled by all the many unfair inferences and 10 scare tactics that have been suggested to you by the government 11 in this trial. 12 You be the judge of whether Ahmed Sattar ever, ever 13 was a real threat to anyone. You decide whether Ahmed Sattar 14 ever did or said anything that could cause one to fear that his 15 words would result in some imminent danger to anyone. 16 You will have to determine whether or not the person you 17 observed and listened to on the witness stand all that period 18 of time is the kind of person who knowingly conspired to 19 defraud the United States, in violation of Count 1. 20 You will have to decide whether the person you 21 observed and listened to is the kind of person who ever had the 22 criminal intent that is required to have conspired with others 23 to kill or Kidnap persons in a foreign country, in violation of 24 Count 2. 25 You will have to decide whether the person who had an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11775 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 opportunity to observe and listen to carefully is the kind of 2 person who ever had the criminal intent that is required to 3 solicit crimes of violence, in violation of Count 3. 4 The government alleges that Ahmed Abdel Sattar 5 violated all of the counts set forth in this indictment. They 6 allege this man advocated violence and he had the intent 7 necessary to establish that he is guilty of Counts 2 and 3. I 8 submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that any person, any 9 person who would ever have any such intent would be someone who 10 takes pleasure and satisfaction from indiscriminate violence 11 through the use of terrorism. 12 For it would seem to me that any person who is either 13 a terrorist himself or one who supports acts of terrorism, no 14 matter, of course, is the kind of evil person who had no 15 feelings for the loss of life and the sorrow of others, 16 you decide whether Ahmed Abdel Sattar is that kind of person. 17 Is he someone, as Mr. Dember said, in referring to 18 Taha, is a person who revels in violence? You have to decide 19 that from all the evidence, from his testimony, from everything 20 that you've heard. 21 At this time, I would like you to ask you to listen 22 once again to a conversation which is in English and has been 23 introduced into evidence and is in Defendants' Exhibits AS-21T 24 and AS-22T as an aid to assist you. This conversation took 25 place on September 18th, 2001, one week after -- a week already SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11776 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 had passed -- after the tragedy of 911. 2 It is a conversation between Ahmed Sattar and Joanne, 3 who happens to be a co-worker of his from the post office. 4 More than the words he spoke in this conversation, I ask you, 5 please, when you put on the earphones and listen to this 6 conversation, listen to the voice of Ahmed Sattar. Listen to 7 the emotions of Ahmed Sattar, listen to the feeling that is 8 being expressed behind the words of Ahmed Sattar even one week 9 after that horrible day. 10 I will ask you, please, to put on your earphones and 11 follow along on the transcript, but listen carefully to the 12 tone of voice expressed. 13 (Recording played and transcript displayed) 14 MR. PAUL: Ladies and gentlemen, you heard the voice, 15 you heard the emotions, you heard the same tears we all shed 16 back then. This was the voice of Ahmed Sattar one week after 17 911. When the government argues that Ahmed Sattar is guilty of 18 these serious crimes, and they tell you that he was conspiring 19 to kill and Kidnap persons in a foreign country and was 20 soliciting crimes of violence, just remember that voice, 21 through the tears of the person you just listened to in that 22 call and you decide what kind of person Ahmed Abdel Sattar 23 really is. 24 I'll tell you what kind of person he is. I'll tell 25 you exactly what kind of person he is. He is a person who is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11777 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 not guilty of the crimes charged in this indictment, and I 2 submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that the government has 3 failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is, in fact, 4 guilty of any of these charges, and your verdict should so 5 reflect "not guilty" as to Count 1, "not guilty" as to Count 2, 6 "not guilty" as to Count 3. 7 Thank you. 8 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll 9 break for lunch. We'll resume at 2:00 o'clock. Please, please 10 remember my continuing instructions. Please, please don't talk 11 about this case at all. Please remember to keep an open mind 12 until I've instructed you on the law and you've gone to the 13 jury room to begin your deliberations. Have a good lunch, and 14 I look forward to seeing you this afternoon. 15 (Jury excused) 16 THE COURT: See you this afternoon. 10 of 2:00, 17 please. 18 (Luncheon recess) 19 (Continued on next page) 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11778 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 2:05 p.m. 3 (In open court; jury not present) 4 MR. TIGAR: I am remaining standing. 5 THE COURT: All right. Is everyone ready? 6 Let's bring in the jury. 7 (Jury present) 8 THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It 9 is good to see you all. 10 Ladies and gentlemen, we are continuing now with 11 summations. As I've told you, all of the rules that I have 12 explained to you, all of the instructions with respect to 13 summations continue to apply. The next summation will be given 14 by Mr. Tigar on behalf of Ms. Stewart. 15 Mr. Tigar. 16 MR. TIGAR: Thank you, your Honor. 17 May it please the Court, counsel, Ms. Stewart, members 18 of the jury, good afternoon. I'm going to be helped today by 19 Mr. Habib, Dan Habib, a young lawyer in our office and you've 20 seen him in the courtroom. He will be sitting here handling 21 some of these exhibits that I want to share with you during my 22 time. 23 Your role up to now has been a silent one. But you're 24 about to have the last word. For the last seven months in many 25 cases, because some of you came here in May, we have been SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11779 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 sharing an important time. As you know, however, from the 2 evidence, the case began as to Lynne Stewart in April of 2002 3 and it was shortly after that I was invited to come up here and 4 be part of it, and now it is yours. Six months ago, a little 5 more, I stood in front of you and predicted what the evidence 6 would show as it applies to Lynne Stewart. And I submit to you 7 that I can proudly stand by everything I said then. You've 8 heard the evidence. Fortunately, you may believe I'm the last 9 of the defense lawyers to address you. When I'm done a 10 government lawyer will stand up and get a chance to give a 11 rebuttal summation that I won't have a chance to answer. Those 12 are the rules. They have the burden of proof. And then the 13 Court, Judge Koeltl, will give you instructions on the law. 14 I have some requests to make of you as I talk. The 15 first is, I'm asking you, because I know you will, to keep an 16 open mind and to approach what I say with an open mind. You 17 know, I used to long ago when my kids were young, when they 18 would get to fighting or something and I would say, all right, 19 John, what happened, and he would tell his story. And then I 20 would wheel around on Kate and say, how do you answer that? 21 She would start and I would say that's not John what said. She 22 said, that's not fair. You're supposed to listen to my side, 23 the whole thing, and not just asking me to answer. 24 Then what I am going to say, I am going to focus on an 25 idea, the idea of reasonable doubt. Because although I do SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11780 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 believe that the evidence in this case tells a strong and 2 powerful story and I will try to summarize the evidence that 3 tells that story, I hope everyone will remember that we don't 4 have a burden to prove a story to you. We don't have the 5 burden to produce any evidence. We simply have an obligation, 6 if we can, to look at the government's evidence and to suggest 7 to you, to show to you the reasonable doubts. And the judge 8 will instruct you that the government is entitled to no greater 9 or less consideration by you in your deliberations. 10 But he is also, I think, going to say this idea of 11 reasonable doubt, it is not a level playing field. The 12 defendant has an advantage and that's a basic constitutional 13 principle. Then, of course, there is the issue that all the 14 lawyers have talked about and some of the lawyers have, in my 15 opinion, taken advantage of, or at least one of them did, and 16 that's the issue of emotion. We are talking about issues that 17 excite anger and grief and fear. If you at least didn't feel 18 some of those about some of these issues, you wouldn't be 19 human. And of all the things we ever asked you to do, human, 20 not being human, it wasn't one of them. We didn't say don't be 21 human. 22 What we said was, in all these rather impertinent 23 questions that we asked you at the beginning, do you think you 24 could put aside whatever it is that you saw or heard and come 25 to the business of judgment without those emotions of anger and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11781 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 grief and fear? Because after all, this case presents the most 2 important question that a democratic society can pose. And 3 that is the reputation, the liberty of a human being. 4 Of course, because it is such an important question, 5 we don't leave it to judgment. We don't leave it to lawyers. 6 We don't leave it to police or FBI agents or anybody. We leave 7 it to you. And we leave it to you under this standard of 8 beyond a reasonable doubt. 9 You know, there are cases that get tried in this 10 courthouse about vast sums of money, millions of dollars. And 11 juries decide those cases based on what the lawyers call a 12 preponderance of the evidence. Those are the civil lawyers. 13 And you recognize civil lawyers because they are the ones that 14 go like this or like this to illustrate this idea of a 15 preponderance of the evidence, just a little more than 50 16 percent. Well, that's not the way this works here. 17 I have another request. You know the evidence in this 18 case came in and Judge Koeltl over and over again gave limiting 19 instructions. He would say, well, this newspaper article is 20 received in evidence, but not for the truth of it because, of 21 course, a newspaper article is just some reporter's version and 22 the media gets it wrong, limiting instruction. And one of the 23 things I want to do in this summation is to criticize the 24 prosecutor, which is my right on behalf of Lynne Stewart, for 25 not pointing out to you clearly that these newspaper articles SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11782 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 that were received, then coupled with arguments like you know, 2 we know and so on were not received for the truth. Then there 3 were limiting instructions that limited evidence to particular 4 defendants. Oh, that's not as to Ms. Stewart. It is not as to 5 this count. It is only as to this count. And those two are 6 important. 7 Now, the next request. I think the judge will say -- 8 by the way, throughout this summation I think I can be most 9 helpful to you and to Lynne Stewart if I put the evidence in 10 the context of the instructions on the law that the judge is 11 going to give. But I want to be very clear, that when I'm done 12 and the government is done, Judge Koeltl will tell you the 13 instructions on the law. And if I say something that I think 14 he is going to say and it is different from what he does say, 15 it is pretty obvious that he is the one that has the last word 16 on that. And you'll have a copy of his charge. 17 I say that because you know a lot of times I think you 18 came here and you wondered, what in the world are they doing in 19 there? Perhaps you sat back in the jury room. Of course, the 20 lawyers -- one of the wonderful things about our country is, 21 the lawyers get to argue to the judge about the legal 22 principles that ought to govern this. And that's how this jury 23 charge that he is going to read to you, Judge Koeltl is going 24 to read to you, comes to be. Of course, the jurors aren't 25 present when we are arguing about that because that's the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11783 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 judge's business. 2 One of the things he is going to say is, there are 3 three separate cases here. There is Lynne Stewart, there is 4 Mohammed Yousry, there is Ahmed Abdel Sattar, three separate 5 human beings whose cases are entitled to separate and 6 individual consideration. And when I say that I don't mean to 7 criticize any defendant or criticize any defendant's lawyer. 8 They each have counsel, separate counsel. I am going to be 9 talking about the importance of that because it was one of the 10 issues that came up in the course of Ms. Stewart's 11 representation of Sheikh Abdel Rahman. But for right now I am 12 just making this request, separate consideration, please. 13 Then as to each individual, Lynne Stewart, Count 1, 14 Lynne Stewart, Count 4, Count 5, each count or charge is also a 15 matter of separate consideration. Of course, the indictment in 16 this case says United States of America against Lynne Stewart. 17 Well, the judge will instruct you that the indictment is just 18 an allegation, a charge, a way to bring things. United States 19 of America isn't against Lynne Stewart. Lynne Stewart isn't 20 against the United States of America. The prosecutors have 21 brought certain allegations into court. And to the extent 22 there is a United States of America, pretty soon, when the 23 lawyers gets done and the judge gets done, you will be it. 24 You'll have the last word. 25 Now, at the risk of some repetition, in my summation I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11784 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 am going to approach what happened in this trial from four 2 different perspectives. I won't repeat each time, but there 3 will be four and that's because I don't know any other way to 4 do it. There is 16 people here, 16 people who although they 5 all come from this same group of counties, New York County and 6 so on, all are from different backgrounds. You have different 7 ideas. You bring to the jury all this wonderful diversity that 8 is characteristic of our great country. 9 40 years ago when I started practicing law maybe you 10 wouldn't have to do that. Federal court then, three jury 11 commissioners, three old white guys chose all the jurors and 12 pretty much looked the same and thought the same and you didn't 13 have what you have today. We have come a long way. There are 14 these great changes. Maybe a thought about how to approach the 15 case, maybe one of you would say, that's not the way I would do 16 it, another of you would. 17 Another issue, and it ran all through the summation of 18 this prosecutor, and that was this word, the terrorism, terror, 19 terrorist dozens of time. Terrorism is not an element of any 20 of the offenses charged in this case. That's right. It is 21 not. The context, however, and repeating it over and over is 22 inescapable, as though we all share some secret. We all know 23 how terrorists think. We didn't get much evidence about what 24 all terrorists think everywhere, but we know that, and 25 therefore we are going to march along to a result. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11785 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 Members of the jury, I may spend some time on the fact 2 that we all know that. The term terror comes into our mind 3 moderately in the reign of terror in France. What was that? 4 That was a government that was abusing people by not giving 5 them fair trials and executing them without evidence. That's 6 what the reign of terror was. 7 When the government wants to talk about the serious 8 matters -- and they are serious matters -- that are at issue in 9 a case like this, when the government wants to come into court 10 and claim to you that there are weapons in some country in the 11 Middle East and somebody has the intention to use them, well, 12 in a court, members of the jury, they have the obligation to 13 prove it to you. And that is what differentiates a court from 14 other places where claims like that might be made. They have a 15 duty not to hype the evidence. They have a duty to tell you 16 what's not so and a duty not to tell you things that are not 17 so. 18 I am going to take on the burden in this summation of 19 suggesting to you that the government has done just that. I am 20 going to argue that they have done it in a cynical effort to 21 target and destroy the career of a courageous, brash, feisty 22 lawyer, Lynne Stewart, Lynne Stewart. 23 The very first witness who took that stand, Patrick 24 Fitzgerald, was her adversary in this building for nine months. 25 You knew Ms. Stewart before that trial began? I know her a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11786 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 little bit before the trial began and then we spent nine months 2 in the same courtroom. At the end of the nine months you knew 3 her quite well? Yes. Is it fair to say during a trial, 4 particularly a long trial, there is a lot of interaction 5 between the defense and prosecution? Yes. And isn't it fair 6 to say that you respected her as a person based on your 7 experience with her on that trial? Yes. And you thought she 8 did a good job, didn't you? Yes. And you know that Lynne 9 Stewart was and is a well-respected lawyer in New York? Here 10 comes the faint praise. My understanding is, when we tried the 11 case that she was well-known, well-respected. 12 How did she get in that case? Run around a mosque and 13 throw her business cards at people? No. Ramsey Clark chose 14 her. You heard him testify. He said that he hadn't known her, 15 but he liked what other lawyers that he respected said about 16 her. He thought it was imperative to have a very effective and 17 aggressive lawyer. He thought it was a good to have a female 18 lawyer represent Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman to dispel this idea 19 about the Muslim religion, Muslim fundamentalism and women. He 20 thought that she showed the world that he had an aggressive 21 representation. 22 What does that mean, members of the jury, showed the 23 world? See, the more important and high visibility and high 24 profile a case is, Ramsey Clark, I submit to you, believes that 25 the more important it is that it be defended aggressively, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11787 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 completely, brashly, if necessary. And why? Because it is 2 important to show the world that we are trying to get it right. 3 The reputation of America depends on that. That's not a new 4 idea, you know. 5 Looking back at history, after the second world war, 6 Stalin and Churchill wanted to round up the Nazi leaders and 7 shoot them and Harry Truman said, you better not do that. Why 8 don't we have a trial? Why don't we show the world the 9 holocaust, give them a fair trial? Get lawyers, judges, 10 because that will show the world that we are not afraid. That 11 will show the world that we have got. 12 So Lynne Stewart got selected to do this job, this 13 very important job. Now, you might ask yourself, well, gee, 14 isn't that what lawyers do? Members of the jury, I'm not 15 naive. I imagine that in New York, like any other place, if 16 there is 16 people, there is probably a total of about four 17 dozen lawyer jokes that everybody knows. Because there are 18 lawyers who do not earn your respect. There are lawyers who 19 behave in ways that are not right, charge a lot of money and 20 don't do anything. We are talking about a lawyer -- and I am 21 going to spend some time on this -- who spent 30 years in the 22 practice in law in this part of town representing people who 23 come out of her community, bridging the gap between the 24 cultural aspirations of the people she knew and judges and 25 juries and prosecutors. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11788 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 We are talking about the kinds of lawyers that you 2 might have in mind when some friend of yours, a doctor maybe 3 says, you know, I don't like lawyers because they are always 4 suing doctors, and you could remind that person, well, you 5 know, 225 years ago, when the doctors were putting leaches on 6 people, there were lawyers drafting the Declaration of 7 Independence and the Bill of Rights. That's not an insult on 8 doctors, but it is to talk about a certain part of the 9 profession. 10 And there is something else, too, about this and it 11 runs through this evidence. You would have thought from the 12 tone of voice the prosecutor used that Lynne Stewart was some 13 kind of disposable accessory in the trial of this case. And I 14 will spend some time with you reading to you some of Pat 15 Fitzgerald's testimony about the job she did pointing out the 16 lies told by government's principal witness. But right now, 17 just, the only thing I would like to mention was -- he talked 18 about -- excuse me just a minute. Oh, yes, how he was wrong. 19 Do we have that one? Mr. Fitzgerald being wrong, yes, his 20 mistake, that file. 21 Remember I asked him in the battle against terrorism 22 it is important to try to be right. And he said yes. Because, 23 as you have expressed, you can be dead right or you can be dead 24 wrong, right? Yes. And with specific reference to Sheikh Omar 25 Abdel Rahman on April 19, '95 you were mistaken? Yes. Were SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11789 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 you not? Yes. And, in fact, speaking of that, did you speak 2 about the way in which you were mistaken on the 16th of June 3 2004, right around the time of this trial he made this 4 statement? If that was last Wednesday, yes. And were you 5 speaking, sir, as a representative of the executive branch of 6 government? I believe so. I was speaking as a witness before 7 a commission. That was the 9/11 commission. And when you 8 heard about the Cole bombing, you said yourself Bin Laden? 9 Yes. But when you heard that the Murrah building in Oklahoma 10 city had gone up, you thought the Blind Sheikh, right? I 11 thought that was a very real possibility, and I was in the 12 courtroom with him that day and that is why I told the 13 commission that your first reaction can be right or it can be 14 wrong, and I have been right and I have been right and I had 15 been wrong, and I recognize that. That was obviously wrong. 16 That was the first witness in this case, kind of a 17 high watermark since we didn't hear much humility from 18 government witnesses, we didn't hear much humility from 19 prosecutors about the fact that the government can be wrong. 20 And it is the job of lawyers to point it out. He was wrong. 21 Now, there are two ways in which that's important 22 about this evidence that I want to talk to you about. The 23 first is that, yes, it is the job of a lawyer to point out that 24 things are wrong. That's the importance of what a lawyer like 25 Lynne Stewart does so that you don't make these kinds of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11790 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 mistakes. And the second thing I want to do is to express 2 regret that these prosecutors apparently weren't listening when 3 Pat Fitzgerald had that moment of humility and candor. Because 4 one prosecutor shot at Mr. Sattar the statement: You just need 5 a gun and a fatwah, right? And Mr. Sattar said: Well, Timothy 6 McVeigh didn't need a fatwah. 7 Now, another part of this is that Pat Fitzgerald looks 8 back and where was he testifying? Before the 9/11 commission. 9 You see, we are sitting here today in the year 2005. We are 10 talking about events made and judgments made in 1997, '98, '99, 11 2000, and early 2001. And it would be terribly unfair, I 12 suggest to you, to apply hindsight in evaluating Lynne 13 Stewart's actions and responses because if we are going to line 14 up everybody who we think might have been honestly mistaken 15 about events back then, well, it is going to be a long line. 16 And that's not the way to look at the evidence. 17 What am I going to do? I am going to confront the 18 evidence. I am going to try to do what Lynne Stewart did 19 successfully for Nasser Ahmed. Remember that case, the 20 immigration case? They had all this secret evidence, made all 21 these claims. Then it turned out with the light of 22 cross-examination. And when the evidence is made public, it 23 turned out that stuff wasn't so, that the government couldn't 24 tell the difference between Gama'at al-Islamiya and Gama'a 25 al-Islamiya, that they had the wrong information about who got SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11791 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 that statement out of the prison. 2 Four parts. I said four. 3 First, I want to talk about the elements of these 4 charges and the instructions that we expect the Court will 5 give. Because that, after all, is the framework within which 6 you all will be looking at the evidence in the case. As I say, 7 as to that evidence, you're it, you're we, the people, you're 8 the final word. 9 Then, second, maybe some of you were thinking, I don't 10 know. You know, there are countries where the jurors get to 11 question the lawyers and the witnesses. I don't think it makes 12 for a particularly orderly trial, but it does happen. It 13 doesn't happen here, so I can't ask you that question, but 14 maybe some of you were saying, as the prosecutor was summing 15 up, how is he going to answer that? Well, we will. I am going 16 to show you, I believe, by a careful analysis that you heard as 17 cruel and reckless and inaccurate a summation as he knew how to 18 make and precious little in it about reasonable doubt. 19 Third, I want to look at some of the exhibits in this 20 case because they have to do with the structure of proof. And 21 I will, as I do that, try to remember these limiting 22 instructions, including the instruction that I believe applies 23 to every single one and that is that the weight, if any, if 24 any, of any item of evidence is for you. 25 The government's investigative techniques are not an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11792 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 issue in the sense that the judge has decided that you can hear 2 certain evidence, that it is legal, that it was properly 3 obtained. That's it. He has the last word on that. But by 4 the same token, the weight, if any, of these exhibits is for 5 you. 6 I am going to do that for another reason. Folks, by 7 this time in the trial you pretty well know I'm an advocate. 8 I'm not neutral. No lawyer here is. It is kind of hard to 9 find self-effacing people in the trial law business. We tend 10 to be egocentric and outspoken and one-sided. It is called the 11 adversary system and some folks resent it, but it is the 12 system. Because that clash of these different people tends, in 13 experience, to produce these good results. I'm an advocate and 14 they are advocates. If I can go back over and look at the 15 exhibits, then you'll have something you can look at in the 16 jury room. You can say, I'll look at that, I'll look at this. 17 Maybe this person told it right, maybe this lawyer argued it 18 right, maybe they didn't. 19 Then, finally, I want to talk about the case through 20 the eyes of Lynne Stewart. I want to talk about this process, 21 this human experience that she shared over the years with 22 Ramsey Clark and Lawrence Schilling and Abdeen Jabara and their 23 client, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, and talk about what is the 24 relationship of a lawyer and a client under those 25 circumstances. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11793 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 So part 1, the instructions on the charges. Count 1 2 of the indictment charges this conspiracy to defraud the United 3 States. Allegedly, the conspiracy begins in 1997. Now, a 4 conspiracy is an agreement to violate the law. This particular 5 conspiracy is to defraud the Department of Justice. You know, 6 you don't fall into a conspiracy like accidentally stepping 7 into a Con Ed manhole in the street. The government has to 8 prove that you entered into the unlawful agreement that was 9 charged and you did it knowingly and willfully, knowing what 10 was going on and with the intention to violate a known legal 11 duty. That's what's key here. 12 And the judge will also say to you that conspiracy 13 sometimes is characterized by secrecy. Here what Lynne Stewart 14 did was, of course, done in the light of day with the 15 exception. I want to talk about that at some length when I get 16 there, those things that the law says lawyers are entitled to 17 keep secret. 18 When Mr. Stern cross-examined Mr. Fitzgerald, he 19 talked about the fact that in a trial each side has certain 20 rights and certain obligations. Your strategy plan can be kept 21 secret. You don't have to come to us and say, this is exactly 22 what we intend to do, correct? Correct. And these are the 23 questions we intend to ask a witness? Correct. There is 24 nothing wrong, nothing illegal, nothing unethical about keeping 25 those things to yourself, correct? Yes. By the same token, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11794 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 the defense has things that they can keep to themselves, right? 2 Members of the jury, you didn't need to have Mr. Stern 3 ask Mr. Fitzgerald that to see how that is. Sometimes the 4 lawyers would come in and they would have a stipulation and 5 say, well, we agree to such and such. We will play this tape. 6 It is an accurate one and so on. And other times they 7 wouldn't. It would be perfectly clear that the lawyers hadn't 8 talked about it in advance, that I would be sitting over here 9 and I would wait until a government lawyer did something and I 10 would object to it and the judge would sustain it or not and 11 the government lawyer would wait until I did something and then 12 the judge would sustain it or not. Because we believe that's 13 the best way to represent our clients, to keep these things to 14 ourselves until we got in this courtroom in your presence, 15 unless all that objecting impressed or not. I have no idea. 16 But we did it because we thought we were entitled to and we 17 thought that we should. 18 The judge is going to tell you you are the exclusive 19 judges of the fact, the exclusive judges of the weight to be 20 given to the evidence, if any, that the defense has no burden 21 to produce evidence or to prove anything. He is going to say 22 to you something like -- I don't want to get this wrong -- that 23 human rights conditions in Egypt and the conditions under which 24 Sheikh Abdel Rahman was held -- let me find that -- are not a 25 defense to any of the charges in this case. That is true. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11795 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 They are not elements of an offense. They are not a defense to 2 any of the charges. 3 However, the government offered evidence of those 4 things. And because the government offered evidence of those 5 things and the defense commented on it, the evidence is before 6 you, not to be considered as a defense to the charges, but as a 7 way of explaining why people did things. That will be our 8 contention, bearing on their knowledge, intent, and state of 9 mind. As I say, it is evidence mostly introduced by the 10 government. And I am going to point to some pieces of evidence 11 that the government introduced that dramatically contradict the 12 government's summation. 13 The judge is going to define reasonable doubt at great 14 length. He is going to define it a number of different ways, 15 including this idea that that's a kind of doubt that would 16 cause you to hesitate in the more important affairs of everyday 17 life. 18 He is going to say that this requirement of knowing 19 and willful is not negligence or inadvertence or mistake. And 20 then we are going to get an instruction, and you will listen 21 for it, and it will be called good faith, good faith. And as 22 to Count 1 and Count 6 and Count 7, good faith. If Lynne 23 Stewart acted in good faith, she is entitled to be acquitted, 24 but not quite like that, because she doesn't have the burden to 25 prove her good faith. The government has the burden to negate SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11796 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 it. And if the evidence in the case raises a reasonable doubt 2 on that issue, then she is entitled to an acquittal. And a 3 good-faith disagreement with the law is not a basis for 4 conviction. 5 I am going to talk about that because it is very 6 important. I am going to submit to you that in the 7 government's own summation this prosecutor self destructed 8 Count 1 on this very issue. If Lynne Stewart disagreed with 9 the government's interpretation of the law about these SAMs in 10 good faith, she must be acquitted. Even if you read the SAMs 11 say, that's unreasonable. 12 We are not challenging the constitutionality or 13 validity of the SAMs. We are arguing about good faith. And 14 when we talk about good faith we are going to talk about some 15 of those ethical considerations and legal ethical principles 16 that Lynne Stewart talked about. And the judge is going to 17 talk to you about those as well, and say that these ethical 18 considerations -- remember the ones I read out to her, and I 19 will bring them back up here and put them on the Elmo. They 20 are aspirational in character, aspirational. What a word. 21 That means they represent the way we would hope we behave as a 22 profession. I use another word for good faith itself, but 23 that's up to you. 24 There is this Count 4 conspiracy. That's the 25 conspiracy to provide aid to the conspiracy to kidnap in a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11797 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 foreign country. Mr. Sattar is charged in Count 2 with 2 conspiring to kidnap in a foreign country or kidnap or murder 3 in a foreign country. As the government told you, the 4 government does not have to say what country or who is going to 5 get kidnapped. But when it comes to trying to stick that on 6 Lynne Stewart, they sure have a burden, and that is to say, 7 they have a burden to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt 8 that she knew there was that conspiracy. 9 And I need to spend some time on that because she 10 doesn't speak Arabic. 90,000 telephone calls, folks, the vast 11 majority of them in Arabic, and not a one that supports the 12 idea that she was aware of any such conspiracy if one existed. 13 That's the importance of that. Did she conspire knowing or 14 intending that resources were being used in that way? Of 15 course, we have these counts, these false statement counts. If 16 she believed in good faith that she was interpreting and 17 applying the SAMs correctly, if she believed it, even if it was 18 unreasonable, her statement, I intend to abide by them is not 19 false, and I am going to put those SAMs up here, and after I'm 20 done saying that, I think the prosecutors self-destructed that 21 case in their summation, we will look at them some more. 22 Also, they have to prove on Count 6 and 7 that these 23 alleged false statements were material and the judge is going 24 to define materiality. It is kind of reliance of the 25 government. Mr. Fitzgerald testified that he relied on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11798 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 affirmations. I'll deal with that. Because these statements, 2 even if you should find -- which I don't think they are, I'm 3 not conceding that -- were false, were not material. 4 As we go through this, folks, I think it is clear that 5 different people have different agendas. That's just life. 6 Ms. Stewart has hers. She is entitled to separate 7 consideration. We will talk about it. Mr. Yousry had his and 8 his lawyers talked about it. Mr. Sattar had his. And before 9 we get to carelessly confusing that this person's agenda must 10 be the same as that one because they work together, we ought to 11 think about that instruction that everybody is entitled to 12 separate consideration, I would say. And also to the 13 common-sense fact that I don't know too much about New York. 14 But where I'm from, every once in a while, we do read in the 15 paper that the deacon made off with the church funds. And 16 everybody says, you know, I never knew that old Deacon Jones 17 was like that, dipping into the money and so on, even though we 18 worked and we were together and all that. So easy assumptions, 19 that so-called guilt by association don't belong here. 20 Second part. We are on the move here. Introduction 21 to second part. I said I was going to comment a little more on 22 the use of these words like terrorism, terrorist and so on, 23 that I was going to comment on the idea of using hindsight 24 reasoning to evaluate this evidence. 25 Those statements were statements sometimes implied, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11799 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 sometimes express, about history, terrorists behave like this 2 or that or the other thing, even though not based on evidence. 3 But we do share some common experiences about that that I 4 suggest points to a quite different view about this subject. 5 Within my lifetime -- I'm pretty well in the seventh decade 6 here, but within the lifetime of the person of average age in 7 the jury, these words like terrorist and terrorism have been 8 thrown around and then retracted back and forth. 9 Muammar Kaddafi, dictator of Libya, was the worst 10 terrorist in the world and our relations with Libya are cured. 11 Kwame Nkrumah was a terrorist in Ghana and he became president 12 of Ghana. Menachem Begin was a terrorist and became the prime 13 minister of Israel. Maire Geoghegan was a terrorist, and she 14 became first woman to hold a cabinet post, and Eamon de Valera 15 became president of Ireland. Osama Bin Laden, leader of the 16 mujahadeen in Afghanistan, when the Soviet Union had been in 17 Afghanistan. That's not to say that terrorism did not -- is 18 not a bad thing. It is, it is. This is a dangerous world in 19 which we live and that's all the more reason not to throw 20 labels around carelessly, all the more reason not to exaggerate 21 things. 22 Of course, as I said before, a little humility on the 23 part of our government about these things, knowing that the 24 political situation could change. Nelson Mandela could be 25 locked up for 30 years and then be the president of his SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11800 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 country. A little humility wouldn't hurt at all. I think it 2 is consistent with having the burden of proof beyond a 3 reasonable doubt to have some. Is there some? No. 4 In the opening statement, what did the prosecutor say? 5 He said that the United States Government thought they had 6 locked Abdel Rahman up and thrown away the key. Well, of 7 course, he didn't mean it literally. They said it. Why would 8 you do that? The evidence might come up that you have the 9 wrong -- that the fellow didn't do all those things, and you 10 would want to go get him out. But you wouldn't have the key 11 because you threw it away. Evidence might come that there is 12 some political advantage that might be gained by exchanging bad 13 people. Bad people do get exchanged, all kind of spies, they 14 let them out and so on. If somebody had thrown away the key 15 you wouldn't be able to do that. I don't expect to get 16 agreement on that. 17 Remember, you see -- we will get to it -- when Pat 18 Fitzgerald wrote to Lynne Stewart in August of 2000 and wanted 19 her to sign on and agree that the Sheikh was responsible for 20 all of these things and she wouldn't do it, to make the 21 difference between allegations and inclusions. 22 This is a statement that I am going to go into in more 23 detail, when Abdel Rahman makes clear his position about the 24 ceasefire. Let's start. Five times in the first two minutes 25 the prosecutor used the word terrorism. I've talked about SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11801 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 that. He then said to you that in this courtroom over a 2 ten-month period there was a trial and a conviction "by a jury 3 like yourselves." 4 You remember the judge saying that these defendants 5 are not bound by that verdict because they weren't a party to 6 it. You remember saying that that verdict doesn't bind you. 7 So why would he tell you about a jury like yourself and all of 8 that except to front end load. Then he said, their view of the 9 nature of these restrictions, speaking of the SAMs, is not a 10 defense or justification. That's not right. 11 Their view of the appropriateness of them, he said 12 that, that is right, but why would he tell you that their view 13 of the nature of them, what they mean and how they are to be 14 applied is not a defense? But it is. And then he quickly 15 referred to Dr. Edwardy and the Edwardy cross, and I am going 16 to talk about that in some detail later. 17 I am going to tell you this right now. Sheikh Omar 18 Abdel Rahman, once they moved him to Rochester, as Ramsey Clark 19 himself said, because they filed that lawsuit, had better 20 medical care than the overwhelming majority of Americans can 21 afford. That's a true story. But it says very, very little 22 about the conditions of isolation in which he was kept. We 23 have a stack -- you can read them -- of the logs. There was no 24 evidence this was done for any other prisoner. He was in a 25 room. Outside the room was another room, a sallyport. He SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11802 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 didn't go in there. They could come in there to look at him. 2 He was kept isolated from every other prisoner. 3 And his human contact was limited to the times twice a 4 week when the lawyers would call, except when they were cut 5 off, the one phone call a month to the family, to his wife, and 6 the times when the doctors would come in to treat him. And you 7 may think that he deserved it, fine and dandy. But the lawyers 8 were concerned about the effect of that isolation on this old 9 man. And the evidence will be that their concern was justified 10 if you were worried about the fact that his physical and mental 11 health deteriorated as a result. 12 Then the prosecutor told you that Sheikh Omar Abdel 13 Rahman took responsibility in his speeches for issuing the 14 fatwah that resulted in the murder of President Anwar Sadat of 15 Egypt. Members of the jury, four or five witnesses testified 16 in this case. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman was tried twice in 17 Egypt for alleged complicity in the murder of Anwar Sadat and 18 was acquitted by an Egyptian court. I'll read you some of the 19 State Department's own papers about what kind of trial you 20 could expect in an Egyptian court in an assassination case. I 21 am not planning to sign up to try a case over there. I'll tell 22 you that. He got acquitted twice. So what is all this 23 reference here? Guilt by acquittal? I am not sure. 24 Then here comes the part. The prosecutor then turned 25 to the 1997 period. And he told you about Ramsey Clark's SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11803 515MSAT4 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 issuing a statement in August of 1997 announcing to the world 2 that Sheikh Rahman supported the Islamic Group peace initiative 3 or ceasefire. And the prosecutor referred to the fact that 4 Ms. Stewart had said and others had said that they regarded the 5 fact that Ramsey Clark began at that time, perhaps earlier, but 6 certainly notably at that time, to issue statements to the 7 press was a guide post to them as they interpreted the SAMs in 8 good faith. That's the testimony. 9 What did the prosecutor say? He says, no version of 10 the SAMs ever prevented any of the lawyers from talking to the 11 press. Okay. Then he shows you some exhibits. There was not 12 a single provision in that from April '97 to April '98. That's 13 during that time that prevented any of Abdel Rahman's lawyers 14 from relaying to third persons or to the media Abdel Rahman's 15 statement. Nothing restricted Clark from doing what he did. 16 The restriction didn't exist, didn't exist. What is he telling 17 you, that the 1997 SAM, Special Administrative Measures, did 18 not prevent Ramsey Clark from doing what he did and, therefore, 19 how in the world could Lynne Stewart think that the later sales 20 prevented her. 21 (Continued on next page) 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11804 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 MR. TIGAR: (Continuing) There is only one trouble 2 with that, as an argument. Patrick Fitzgerald, the 3 government's first witness, you remember him. He is now the 4 United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois. 5 He was the guy that started up the SAMS, and he ran them and 6 did all of that, authored the letters and took principal 7 responsibility, all right? 8 I asked him about this on cross-examination, and he 9 said that, question: 10 "Q Well, it was clear to you to you that whoever issued it" -- 11 he said I didn't know whether it was Ramsey Clark that issued 12 it -- "it was a violation of the SAMS, right? 13 "A Yes." 14 What is the significance of that? Well, Mr. 15 Prosecutor, meet Mr. Fitzgerald. I am not suggesting for a 16 moment that the prosecutor who told you that it didn't violate 17 the SAMS interpreted the SAMS in bad faith. I am sure he had 18 excellent good faith, and I am not telling you that 19 Mr. Fitzgerald didn't interpret the SAMS in absolute good faith 20 when he said it did violate the SAMS. 21 But what you have here, folks, is two different 22 responsible government lawyers in the office of the Southern 23 District of New York, the prosecutor's office, who have 24 diametrically opposed visions of what the SAMS required. Well, 25 if two lawyers that work for the same prosecutor's office can SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11805 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 have diametrically opposed views of what the SAMS required, 2 what, pray tell, prevents Lynne Stewart from having her view? 3 Why are they attacking her and ganging up on her and 4 yelling her about the fact she interpreted the SAMS in a way 5 they don't find reasonable? Today they themselves can't get 6 together. 7 You know, this is not some sort of debating society, 8 you know, constructionist, deconstructionist, Derrida Seminar 9 about language we're having here, folks. This is a felony 10 charge they're bringing. Well, if they were doctors, they 11 would say, "Physician, heal thyself." 12 Now, the prosecutor did tell you that all the SAMS are 13 in evidence and you can look at them. Well, you know, I wish 14 you would, and I know you will, and I am going to go through 15 these and I am going to show you why it is that Lynne Stewart 16 had the interpretation that she did and why it was in good 17 faith. 18 Right now I'd like to focus on something. Mr. Clark 19 was asked the question: Mr. Clark, do you remember signing 20 SAMS affirmations? And he said well, yes, and he was shown 21 one, which is one on the 24th of April '97. Then he was shown 22 the one that was signed after they had all of the argument in 23 the Fall of 2000 about what the language was going to be, and 24 then he said I don't remember signing any of those. 25 In the evidence in this case, members of the jury, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11806 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 there are two affirmations signed by Ramsey Clark, one in 1997 2 and the other in early 2001. Ramsey Clark conducted the 3 majority or plurality, at any rate, of the telephone calls 4 which Abdel Rahman conducted prison visits, did all of that. 5 These SAMS are so all fired important, these affirmations were 6 material to what they were doing, if Mr. Fitzgerald was telling 7 the truth when he said I relied on those, on what was he 8 relying? 9 They didn't send them to Mr. Clark and they didn't ask 10 him to sign them. 11 Your Honor, may we take a brief recess now? 12 THE COURT: All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll 13 take 10 minutes. Ladies and gentlemen, please remember my 14 continuing instructions, please, please, don't talk about this 15 case at all. Always remember to keep an open mind until I have 16 instructed you on the law. 17 (Jury excused) 18 (Recess) 19 THE COURT: Be seated, all. 20 MR. TIGAR: Shall I stand at the lectern, your Honor? 21 THE COURT: All right. 22 MR. TIGAR: Thank you. 23 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 24 (Jury present) 25 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. All right, we'll SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11807 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 continue. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, you're to continue 2 to apply all of my instructions on summation. 3 Mr. Tigar, you may proceed. 4 MR. TIGAR: Thank your Honor. 5 The next thing about the issue raised in that 6 summation I want to talk about is Government Exhibit 1002 X, 7 that the prosecutor referred to but he didn't tell you all that 8 was in it. It is very important, all that's in it. 9 That is a telephone conversation with Mr. Sattar and 10 Mr. Taha, and this Egyptian lawyer Muntasir Al-Zayat, not only 11 to remind you how that worked, apparently Mr. Sattar had 12 three-way calling on his phone, so he could hook these things 13 up. Of course, it is a conversation in Arabic. There is no 14 evidence Ms. Stewart knew about it, but there is plenty of 15 evidence this Muntasir Al-Zayat is and was. 16 Ramsey Clark was shown a picture of him. He says that 17 important Egyptian fellow who lives in Cairo, and he is a 18 lawyer for Sheikh Abdel Rahman in Egypt, not the family doctor. 19 That was that Dr. Mandoor, but the fellow was very active, and 20 he was representing Islamic Group members and others and he had 21 represented the Sheikh in that trial where he was acquitted. 22 This conversation bears out, I suggest to you, what I 23 had said in opening statement was the story here, that is to 24 say, that Taha was a renegade and that the people close to the 25 Sheikh rejected Taha and kept him at a distance. After all SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11808 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 you've heard, the lawyers argue and you say wait a minute, that 2 is not my impression. Well, I'll deal with that. I'll show 3 you that in these later transcripts, but I want to start with 4 this one because it is so important. 5 This is a conversation in December of 1998. Now, you 6 will recall that there was evidence, and the prosecutor did 7 refer to it in his summation, that Taha had joined Osama Bin 8 Laden in that infamous fatwah about killing Americans, all 9 right? 10 And, of course, as the other lawyers have pointed out, 11 the judge instructed you that Osama Bin Laden is not part of 12 any of the charges in this case. I was at pains in my opening 13 to say, and I suggest this bears it out, that Muntasir 14 Al-Zayat, like all of the other lawyers who had the Sheikh's 15 best interest at heart, understood that Bin Laden was bad news, 16 that Taha was bad news, and that you needed to keep away from 17 them, far from there being some conspiracy of which the Sheikh 18 and his lawyers were a member. 19 Remember also, please, that from the evidence in the 20 case, Taha is in Afghanistan. Mr. Yousef testified that he 21 told the FBI, based on information he had, that Taha came back 22 to Egypt in custody in 2002, but as of the time we're talking 23 about here, Mr. Taha has neither the intention nor the desire 24 nor apparently the ability to come back to Egypt to do things. 25 He's off there in Afghanistan, and this conversation is going SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11809 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 to bear that out. 2 At Page 5, Al-Zayat tells Taha, I told the brothers, 3 the people inside the jail, my clients that I go see -- isn't 4 that interesting? Lawyers in every country represent people 5 that are held under these conditions, and they go see them. I 6 don't know that there is always a lawsuit to talk about or 7 whatever, but they go see them because, well, it's just the 8 right thing to do. If you have somebody that you knew that was 9 in jail for a long time, you would hope that somebody would go 10 see them. Anyway, he said I did communicate your views to 11 these other people, he says, at Page 5. 12 Then Al-Zayat in no uncertain terms tells Taha, "I 13 agree to the initiative, and I think it is an historic chance 14 for the group and the state, provided that the state copes with 15 us in a positive way. It is a chance for us to"-- and then 16 there is an unintelligible. I will talk about the 17 unintelligibles later -- the people and bloodshed and then he 18 says da'wa, an Islamic term, tell him that Esam agrees to 19 everything and he calls on you personally, speaking to Taha, to 20 stop anyone who might be thinking to do something now, tell 21 them not to do it. 22 Well, Taha keeps fussing at him, and so Al-Zayat gets 23 right in his face. He says they're worried that the atmosphere 24 in which you live, Taha says hum -- not ah -- hum, could have 25 influenced your behavior or the way you think. Ah, the people SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11810 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 around you, the people of Taliban, of Bin Laden, of 2 Al-Zawahiri, and they're worried that the atmosphere in which 3 you live has a negative influence on the way you make decisions 4 or the way you think. 5 Now, Al-Zayat has been a lawyer in Egypt a long time. 6 He knows who Taha is. He is talking to somebody he knows and 7 he is telling him to keep away from those people. You consult 8 with your brothers of the group, not with others, he commands 9 him. 10 And then he talks about that fatwah. They say to you 11 they have their problems. Well, they surely do. A bunch of 12 them are in jail. They're being held, some of them, without 13 trial and they've got a lot of problems that Al-Zayat and 14 others are trying to deal with. They have their problems. 15 They have enough problems. The group has a lot of problems. 16 They don't need to get into conflict with another 17 power, especially if it is a super power, and any attempt to 18 solve the problem internally with the government here will not 19 be a success as long as we are getting in enmity with America, 20 because America will exert pressure on the Egyptian government. 21 So Al-Zayat's views -- and we're unfortunate in a way 22 that everything wasn't recorded all during those years -- 23 Al-Zayat's views are crystal clear here to anyone who cares to 24 listen, and it is a fair inference that those were the views 25 that he held consistently and shared with the other lawyers SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11811 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 representing the Sheikh. 2 So it is not accurate or right to begin introducing 3 Taha, who is in Afghanistan here, and not making the careful 4 distinction that the lawyers dealt with him and his ideology 5 and his views in a fundamentally different way because my task 6 now is to deal with the prosecutor. I have to leave the rest 7 of that for later. 8 Right now I would like to turn to the next thing the 9 prosecutor told you. One can't talk about the cease fire 10 without talking about the Luxor massacre in November of 1997, 11 the Luxor massacre. The judge said that none of the defendants 12 is alleged to have participated, planned or had advance 13 knowledge of the Luxor attack and none of the defendants is 14 charged with such acts. 15 The evidence with respect to the Luxor attack is 16 introduced to help you understand the background and context of 17 the conspiracies charged in the indictment and for whatever 18 relevance you find it adds to the other issues in the case. 19 In short, Luxor isn't charged here. It certainly 20 provides some background, and I want to talk about it, but it 21 is not charged here. It is not charged here. I can't say why. 22 The government is to bring the charges. It happens three 23 months after Omar Abdel Rahman has announced his support for 24 the initiative. It is in direct conflict to what he said he 25 wanted to happen. Later, as I've said, and I may repeat myself SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11812 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 even more, but he had denounced it and the Islamic Group 2 denounced it. 3 In fact, this distance from Luxor continues because 4 then in 2000, when Pat Fitzgerald wrote to Lynne Stewart, he 5 wanted her to sign an affirmation that said that terrorist 6 actions have been carried out in his name, including the 7 killing of the tourists, and she wouldn't sign that. 8 Ramsey Clark wouldn't sign it. They insisted he 9 change it to "people using his name" because they didn't want 10 to be in a position of conceding that he had anything to do 11 with it because it wouldn't be in their client's interest. It 12 would also be false. 13 Now, Pat Fitzgerald backed down from his insistence 14 that Lynne Stewart sign it. Anybody can use his name, and we 15 have seen how his name was used cynically throughout this case. 16 We have seen people take statements, and I am going to show you 17 a bunch more, where Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman says something 18 that is clear and does not endorse violence and is simply an 19 expression, and people then take it and hype it into something 20 that it is not, knowing that that is going to support their 21 agenda. 22 Lynne Stewart never had anything to do with anything 23 like that. 24 But Luxor, you remember Eckhart Husslesvieler? I 25 don't think I will ever forget that dignified, sad gentleman, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11813 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 the German lawyer, who came in here and told you -- and the 2 judge's instruction as to how it is for a limited purpose that 3 the prosecutor didn't bother to tell you about it but it is 4 there -- he told you about it, and I was struck, I must say, by 5 his presence of mind on that day, in the face of all of that 6 violence, who among us could aspire to anything greater or 7 better than that, to have that presence, that courage to lead 8 his group, to try to keep them safe, to see what was going on 9 and to keep his focus. 10 He told his story with quiet dignity. He got up from 11 the chair and left the room. Now, why am I saying this at such 12 length, members of the jury? Eckhart Husslesvieler is the only 13 government witness presented in this case who ever saw a weapon 14 in Egypt, and his testimony does not relate to any of the 15 charges in this case except, as you may choose to use it, with 16 the judge's instruction, the only one. 17 Now, the judge is going to tell you, and I hope I have 18 said it before, I'll say it again, the government's choice of 19 investigative techniques is not my business or your business. 20 They get to choose, but what they don't get to choose is to opt 21 out of their obligation to prove things beyond a reasonable 22 doubt. That they don't get. They are adults. Like all 23 adults, they must live with the consequences of their choices. 24 My students can choose not to study for the final exam 25 and they can choose to flunk the course. You make choices. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11814 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 The only government witness who ever saw a weapon in Egypt. 2 Now, maybe that is not as significant for some. I am 3 only talking for Lynne Stewart, who was not on the phone to 4 Egypt, who does not speak Arabic, who was not in contact with 5 folks, and I'll get later to the newspaper articles that were 6 found in her office, not admitted for the truth and relating to 7 evince that were before 1997. 8 What did the government present if they didn't have 9 it? They told you as a result of the Atia, Taha, Sattar 10 counts, which, by the way, are not admitted against Lynne 11 Stewart, they're admitted only as to Count 2 and 3, okay, those 12 counts, and the prosecutor told you that candidly, that there 13 were weapons in Egypt and there were people that were going to 14 use them. That is what they said. And the evidence is what? 15 Excuse me, FBI, are there weapons in Egypt, disposition on the 16 part of people? Yes, sir. How do you know? We wiretapped a 17 guy in Staten Island. 18 You what? We wiretapped a guy in Staten Island. I 19 understand that is all very well for an intelligence briefing, 20 but we are talking about a court here. Did you send someone to 21 Egypt to see if there were weapons there and maybe take a 22 picture? 23 We did have peace officers, anti-terrorist peace 24 officers testify for the government in this case. There were 25 two. They were from London. One of them testified that he had SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11815 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 obtained Mr. Al-Sirri's telephone bill and the other one went 2 to Mr. Al-Sirri's book shop and found a book which he brought, 3 which was not introduced against Lynne Stewart. 4 Members of the jury, you are the judges of the weight 5 of the evidence. What was it? Was Agent Kerns busy in 6 Minneapolis with the tapes he couldn't hear? Agent Elliot 7 worried about the crashes of the hard drives, Agent Sorrell was 8 trying to figure out where the 58 seconds who didn't get 9 reported came from, Agent Whittle on the phone with Mr. Yousef. 10 I submit to you, members of the jury, that the 11 government has failed you with respect to this fundamental 12 question, the existence in a way that Lynne Stewart would know 13 about beyond a reasonable doubt of a conspiracy to use weapons 14 in a Middle Eastern country, to wit: Egypt or whatever. 15 There has been a great deal of record in this case 16 about accountability; that is to say, all directed at Lynne 17 Stewart's supposed accountability or her every word, her every 18 gesture, her every thought. In the end, members of the jury, 19 you will decide who is accountable and how they are 20 accountable, and if they kept their promise, if they showed 21 you, based on the hard evidence of which Lynne Stewart was 22 aware, something more than the possible leap by a possible 23 terrorist out of a conjectural dark corner. 24 Now, very interesting. In this same 1002 X that I 25 mentioned, you can also see something of a division of opinion SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11816 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 because Mr. Sattar, according to the government, expresses the 2 opinion that there is no chance for release of Abdel Rahman so 3 long as the situation, political situation in Egypt is 4 tranquil, which is directly contrary to what Muntasir Al-Zayat 5 said. 6 Now, there is another part of this that is in this 7 same telephone call. The prosecutor refers to this call and 8 others. He tells you that both Sattar and Taha looked to Abdel 9 Rahman as the final arbiter, the ultimate arbiter of any 10 dispute within the Islamic Group. 11 Well, the evidence doesn't seem to bear that out, 12 members of the jury. Certainly he was influential. Of course, 13 Ms. Stewart, there is no evidence at all that she ever spoke to 14 Mr. Taha, none at all. There is no evidence at all that she 15 had this discussion, any discussion with Mr. Sattar, with Ms. 16 Stewart, about this subject. 17 But Mr. Fitzgerald testified very clearly here that 18 the alleged role of Abdel Rahman was different. There was some 19 dispute, says Fitzgerald -- remember, he spent 9 months in this 20 courthouse trying that case. Of course, the evidence in that 21 case is not admitted for its truth. It is admitted for its 22 effect on the knowledge, intent, state of mind of the people 23 that saw it, okay? 24 There was some dispute as to whether he could be a 25 leader because he was a blind man. So whatever his formal SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11817 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 title was, he was a leader of that group, et cetera, okay? 2 He did say and he thought he gave directions, people 3 would follow them, but there is this dispute and there are 4 other telephone calls we'll hear later where people say he is a 5 captive, so we don't have to listen to him. What is the point 6 of this? Lynne Stewart is not a party to any of these 7 discussions about whether a blind man can lead or a captive can 8 lead or whatever. 9 But what is clear is that the people that are talking 10 about Omar Abdel Rahman statements that they're getting hold of 11 are behaving, unbeknownst to Stewart, in a very cynical way. 12 On the one hand, if he agrees with them, he is terrific; on the 13 other hand, if he doesn't, well, he is blind and in jail and 14 who cares anyway. 15 Now, I want to turn in the few minutes that I have 16 here left today to the 1999 prison visits. You'll recall that 17 Ms. Stewart visited in Rochester in March of '99 and then 18 Ramsey Clark visited in September of '99. Neither of those 19 visits was recorded. The prosecutor stood here and told you 20 how you could infer what happened there. I am going to make, 21 and it will probably take me past 4:00, but I may not pick it 22 up in the morning, I am going to make a bold claim: That his 23 assertions about what the evidence is of what happened in those 24 visits is a house of cards, if I can use a metaphor, but not 25 using all the evidence. If you're going to make a house of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11818 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 cards, at least you ought to play with a full deck. 2 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, please! 3 MR. TIGAR: First, how do we know he says what 4 happened in March of '99? We know because look at the calls, 5 the intercepted calls on Sattar's phone that took place before 6 the visit and after the visit, and that will tell you what 7 happened during the visit. And then he tells you what 8 Mr. Sattar said to people that Lynne Stewart never met in 9 language she doesn't speak before the visit and what Mr. Sattar 10 said to people that Lynne Stewart never met in a language she 11 doesn't speak after the visit. 12 Now, well, other lawyers have pointed it out, but what 13 is the problem with that? In 1999, we know what happened 14 because Mr. Sattar always calls Taha and Hamza and tells them 15 the absolute truth about the visit. Then in the Year 2000, the 16 same prosecutor, arguing about the same Mr. Sattar, sits here 17 and says well, look, Mr. Sattar completely misinterpreted, 18 accused him of lying about what happened in the visit. It is 19 the same Mr. Sattar. There is no evidence of some epiphany as 20 though in the nighttime he suddenly changed in 1999 from one 21 kind of a person to the other. 22 The fact, members of the jury, is that it is improper, 23 unreasonable to infer from what Mr. Sattar said about the 24 events at that visit, based on the phone calls entirely aside 25 from the fact that he wasn't there. So it is the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11819 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 uncorroborated, contradictory word of a person who wasn't 2 there, claimed by the government not to be a truth-teller with 3 respect to the same subject matter of the subject we're here 4 for. Nonsense! 5 Ms. Stewart told you what she understood. She 6 understood that there was ongoing dispute about a discussion 7 about the initiative and that at that visit Sheikh Abdel Rahman 8 did not say cancel it. He didn't. In fact, he simply called 9 at most for more consultation. 10 Now is when we get to the government saying that to 11 bring in a message, to bring in a matter for discussion about 12 politics in Egypt is a violation of the SAMS as they then 13 existed. 14 Ms. Stewart said she didn't think it was. It's clear 15 from the record that Mr. Clark over and over again brought 16 those things in. So let's start with the interpretation that 17 the lawyers had. Mr. Clark said that he issued a number of 18 press statements, including -- may I have the -- (pause) 19 MR. BARKOW: Objection, your Honor. This is not 20 admissible with respect to Ms. Stewart. 21 THE COURT: All right. Could you move on to something 22 else? 23 MR. TIGAR: Of course, your Honor, I would be happy to 24 talk about it. That is if there is a limiting instruction of 25 which I am not aware, then I am perfectly happy not to do it. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11820 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 Folks, I am serious about that. I welcome getting 2 stopped. I welcome it because it maybe will break my train of 3 thought. I welcome it because it reminds us all of something 4 very important: There are rules here, and we are all bound by 5 it, and I am, too, and I accept that. 6 Now, Mr. Clark, Mr. Clark was asked repeatedly in his 7 direct examination about what he thought about the visits. 8 First, he said that there were unusual legal problems. He said 9 that the prison conditions continue to be a problem, that there 10 are important legal calls where, as you know, and you heard, 11 they discussed all manner of things, including reading the 12 papers and conveying information about the situation in Egypt. 13 That the Sheikh wanted to be transferred to Egypt, 14 that Mr. Clark was still working on that, that he's heard of it 15 happening, that even though there is no treaty, it could be 16 arranged very quickly. 17 He constantly discussed how we kept the world reminded 18 of his presence and his condition, and this involved -- you saw 19 the things that came in, the limiting instructions are what 20 they are. We constantly discussed how we kept the world 21 reminded. 22 The Italian press was most interesting. They wanted 23 to keep him abreast of world events in part to maintain him 24 psychologically. It mattered also to his health and survival. 25 The fact that Mr. Taha did not agree with the cease fire was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11821 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 one of those well-known facts in the world. It is no surprise 2 that Sheikh Abdel Rahman knows that. So in terms of whether 3 this is a good message or a bad message, whether a lawyer might 4 reasonably say I think the client should know about it, 5 certainly Ramsey Clark thought that, and Ms. Stewart testified 6 at some length, as I'll go into later. 7 But what about the SAMS? 8 Well, Lynne Stewart signed one on May 7th, 2001. What 9 it said was I will only allow the meetings to be used for legal 10 discussion between Abdel Rahman and me. I will allow the calls 11 to be used for legal discussion, and she told you how she 12 defined the term, "legal discussion." 13 I was going to talk about this later. Here is an old 14 man, sick, a little bit nuts because of all of the conditions 15 that he has in isolation, who has a hope and a dream and a 16 desire to get himself back to Egypt. It has happened in 17 American history that even people convicted of terrible 18 terrorist crimes have been let go for various reasons. It 19 happens. The prosecutor didn't tell you about it. He just 20 referred broadly to how could such a thing ever be. It 21 happened to -- who was convicted of seditious conspiracy, but 22 it happened. 23 Here you have somebody who was involved in political 24 events, and I take it upon myself the burden to show you in 25 this summation, and I promise you I am going to do it, to what SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11822 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 I hope is your satisfaction, that Lynne Stewart never 2 communicated a message to the outside world that called for 3 violence. I am going to show that to you, so we're not talking 4 about that. 5 What we're talking about this sick, old man. Could we 6 take it out of the context of an alleged Islamic fundamentalist 7 terrorist for a minute? There are people in America today all 8 over this country who are being held in jails, some of them 9 awaiting execution, and you know what? They all or almost all, 10 almost all have some hope that there will be a reprieve, that 11 they will get out, that their conditions might improve. 12 The lawyers for them, they could only hope that 13 somebody cares enough to go in there and take them seriously 14 and take their telephone calls and talk to them even if there 15 is no chance that something could happen. 16 At the end of the summation, the prosecutor mocked 17 Lynne Stewart. She never filed a condition suit. She didn't 18 get the forms until 2001. Now, Ramsey Clark testified that as 19 a result of the suit they filed in Springfield, Missouri, they 20 did get some improvement in terms of Rochester. 21 The Government of the United States is mocking a pro 22 bono lawyer for not having, not having received a fee yet of 23 any kind, who started a huge, big lawsuit in a distant city. 24 The Government of the United States has the arrogance to tell 25 the defense bar how to practice law. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11823 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 The defense bar doesn't need that instruction. The 2 defense bar stands independent. Does it make sense? What is 3 it, we're supposed to be too litigious? The constant threat of 4 litigation was one of the things that improved Sheikh Abdel 5 Rahman's medical treatment in that prison, and Ramsey Clark 6 said that and you can count on it, folks. 7 If you go to a lawyer and the lawyer says you got the 8 choice of two lawyers, one said you retain me for $10,000 and 9 I'll go down there and file a lawsuit and take 15 depositions, 10 and by golly, we'll see. The other attorney says give me $500 11 on retainer, I'll call up some hostile lawyers, and see if it 12 would be reasonable to think they'll be $9,500 to the good if 13 you let the "phone call" lawyer do it and that lawyer would get 14 celebrated for not stirring up litigation when something else 15 would do it. 16 It really is more than that. Ramsey Clark tells you 17 he is an important figure. You know it. You have heard from 18 all that you have heard here. Why do you think he gets that 19 medical care? The United States is a little bit scared if it 20 is proved that he didn't, he didn't get that care and maybe 21 something could happen, that is not a threat, that is just a 22 reality. 23 I want to suggest to you that all of this complaining 24 about the lawyers paying attention to that sick old man 25 represents their point of view about how to practice law, but SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11824 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 that it is not the point of view shared by people who care 2 about the well-being of their clients. In Louisiana, in 3 Louisiana on death row when a death-sentenced inmate walks the 4 hall, a guard said, "Dead man walking, dead man walking." 5 Well, if a lawyer is sworn to represent somebody who 6 is despised and neglected and hated, it is a mark of pride and 7 a badge of honor to pay attention to that client's needs. But 8 I got off track a little bit. 9 I am going to turn tomorrow morning -- I'll ask the 10 judge if I could could do this -- to the September 1999 visit. 11 All we had is Mr. Sattar's -- the September '99 one was the 12 government claimed first that Sheikh Abdel Rahman said that the 13 IG was absolved from the cease fire; and, second, that Ramsey 14 Clark refused to issue that statement because it was 15 "criminal." 16 When we meet tomorrow morning, I am going to 17 demonstrate to you, based on the evidence in the case, that 18 both of those claims are false. 19 I respectfully request we break for the evening. 20 THE COURT: Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll break 21 for the day, and I, I emphasize to you, as I have continually 22 done, it is so important, please remember to follow all of my 23 instructions. Please don't talk about this case at all among 24 yourselves or with anyone when you go home this evening. Don't 25 talk about it when you return tomorrow. Don't talk about it at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11825 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 all. 2 Remember, please, don't look at or listen to anything 3 to do with the case. If you should see or hear something 4 inadvertently, simply turn away. 5 Finally, please always remember to keep an open mind 6 until I have instructed you on the law and you've gone to the 7 jury room to begin your deliberations. Fairness and justice to 8 the parties requires that you do that. 9 With that, have a very good evening. We'll resume at 10 9:30 tomorrow morning. 11 (Jury excused) 12 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, I have checked. There was a 13 limiting instruction. 14 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, everyone is free to 15 leave, but I still have matters to take up with the parties. 16 If you are leaving, please do so quietly. Thank you. 17 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, I only know of the one matter. 18 Mr. Barkow was right. I was wrong. I have no objection to the 19 court instructing the jury or else I will start tomorrow 20 morning by saying you know there is a limiting instruction on 21 that. It just depends on how the court would prefer to handle 22 it. 23 THE COURT: I have no problem with your beginning with 24 there was a limiting instruction because when the issue came 25 up, there was an objection, and I asked you to move on, and you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11826 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 did. So you can begin tomorrow with the fact that there was a 2 limiting instruction. 3 MR. TIGAR: I am happy to. 4 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, obviously that is fine and I 5 am sure Mr. Tigar doesn't mean to do this, but when he does so, 6 there should be no reference at all to what the exhibit is 7 because I heard very beginings of what he was describing, but 8 the exhibit is not admissible as to Ms. Stewart, and it is our 9 view he should do so without them knowing about it. 10 MR. TIGAR: I agree with that. What Mr. Barkow heard 11 was my asking Mr. Habib to get me that exhibit and I referred 12 to it by the name we have in our office. I really will do it 13 to Mr. Barkow's utter satisfaction. 14 THE COURT: Fine. Could you talk about it, the two of 15 you? 16 MR. TIGAR: Of course. If he will write out what he 17 wants me to say, I'll be happy to do it. I am serious about 18 that, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: All right. There are a couple of other 20 things that I wanted to take up with all of you. One is I have 21 revised the final page of the jury deliberations to indicate 22 that the jury will go to the jury room while I talk to the 23 lawyers. Mr. Fletcher will give out copies of that for all of 24 you. 25 The next thing I wanted to check with all of you on is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11827 515JSAT5 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 I assume from where we are today that -- also based on what 2 Mr. Fletcher told me -- that the parties don't expect that 3 tomorrow I would instruct the jury. 4 MR. TIGAR: That is correct, your Honor. Mr. Barkow 5 had called me last evening to ask how long I planned to take. 6 I will discuss that with him. I am happy to do it. 7 THE COURT: That is fine. 8 MR. TIGAR: I think that your Honor's view of that 9 situation is correct. 10 THE COURT: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that I 11 had the uninterrupted time to give the jury instructions, which 12 will take some time to give myself, so I won't do that 13 tomorrow, and I'll find out at the end of the day tomorrow 14 where all of you are, okay? 15 Okay. Please be here at 9:15 tomorrow. Have a good 16 evening. 17 (By Order of the Court, Pages 11828 through 11835 are 18 sealed) 19 (Continued on next page) 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300