11960 51A5SAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 January 10, 2005 8 9:33 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO 17 ANTHONY BARKOW 17 ANDREW DEMBER 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL 19 BARRY M. FALLICK 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE 23 DAVID STERN 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11961 51A5SAT1 1 (Trial resumed; jury not present) 2 THE COURT: Good morning, all. Let's bring in the 3 jury. 4 MR. TIGAR: Shall I move to the lecturn, your Honor? 5 Thank you. I will take this off here. 6 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher advises that the jury is 7 going to be a couple of minutes. I would remind the jurors at 8 the beginning of my usual instructions about summations that 9 nothing the lawyers say is evidence. Basically the lawyers 10 submit that they submit the evidence shows or does not show and 11 that all issues of law, they are to follow my instructions on 12 the law. 13 If any lawyer says a principle of law different from 14 what I say it is my instructions that they must follow and they 15 are to continue to apply those instructions throughout all the 16 summations. And we are just waiting now. 17 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, will you be saying that it is 18 the purpose of summations to argue to the jury what we claim 19 the evidence does or does not show? 20 THE COURT: Right. 21 MR. TIGAR: Will you be giving that part? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 MR. TIGAR: Thank you. 24 THE COURT: The lawyers submit what they submit the 25 evidence does or does not show. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11962 51A5SAT1 1 MR. TIGAR: Thank you very much. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11963 51A5SAT1 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 3 THE JURY: Good morning, your Honor. 4 THE COURT: It is good to see you all. 5 Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to continue with 6 the summations. Please remember all of my continuing 7 instructions that you are to continue to apply throughout all 8 of the summations even if I don't, as I have told you, repeat 9 them after every break. 10 Remember that nothing the lawyers say is evidence. 11 The lawyers submit to you what they submit the evidence in the 12 case has shown or not shown. 13 On all issues of law, it is my instructions on the law 14 that you must follow. If any lawyer states a principle of law 15 different from what I say that the law is, of course it is my 16 instructions on the law that you must follow. 17 And remember that you are to continue to apply these 18 instructions throughout the summations and I will repeat them 19 again in the course of my final instructions to you. 20 All right, Mr. Tigar, you may proceed. 21 MR. TIGAR: Thank you, your Honor. 22 I will wind this up as expeditiously as I can in 23 talking about what the evidence does and does not show. The 24 "does not show" has to do, in our respectful submission, with 25 this idea of reasonable doubt. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11964 51A5SAT1 1 Now, on Thursday when we were last here I had 2 mentioned that really it is one percent of Lynne Stewart's life 3 that is on display here if you look at her caseload and the 4 other matters she was handling. 5 Now, the reason that she took the stand, and you know 6 she was on the witness stand there for you to see for all or 7 part of nine days, the reason was to put all of this into the 8 context of her life because the government didn't tap her 9 phone. She was picked up when she would call people whose 10 phones were tapped or when she wandered into other 11 surveillances. 12 I am not going to take your time by going through her 13 testimony and putting up pieces of transcript. As I said on 14 Thursday, that's at war with the way I learned how to do this. 15 If we were going to try the case based on reading transcript we 16 could have faxed it in and she wouldn't have to be on the 17 witness stand. She was there. You saw her, you observed her 18 demeanor, you watched her on cross-examination and you watched 19 something very important, I submit to you when you evaluate her 20 good faith, which we submit is a key concept. 21 Lynne Stewart achieved success in her profession in 22 the branch of her profession that she chose to work in, not 23 uptown, Wall Street, real estate. There is nothing wrong with 24 all of that branch of the profession, she chose to do her 25 profession in her community. And she chose it because her life SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11965 51A5SAT1 1 experience, as she worked in the school up in Harlem and down 2 in the East Village, down in the projects, she saw every day 3 what was happening, particularly to young people in her 4 community, and decided she was going to do something about it. 5 She earned her place. 6 Now, you will recall that the government confronted 7 her with her radical politics and the principal thing they 8 confronted her with was a newspaper article that appeared in 9 1995 by a man named Joe Fried in the New York Times while she 10 was trying the Sheikh's case where she talked about her views 11 about violence. 12 Now, the Judge is going to instruct you about the 13 rights every American has to embrace dissident views, but isn't 14 it interesting that although those views were ones that she 15 publicly expressed in 1995, apparently whatever her views were 16 and she made no secret of them ever, the government is indeed 17 taxed with that, can you imagine Lynne Stewart making secretive 18 her views? 19 Pat Fitzgerald came here, the only government witness 20 who had a long experience working with Lynne Stewart, and he 21 told you, under oath, that he respected her as a person, that 22 he liked her, that she did a good job, that she was a well 23 respected lawyer back at the time that she was expressing those 24 views as well as trying the Sheikh's case. 25 Now, in talking about Lynne Stewart's approach to what SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11966 51A5SAT1 1 she did, I submit to you that one of the most significant 2 things was her way of talking about what the media and the 3 government were trying to do to her client. She referred to 4 that as demonization. How do governments justify doing things 5 to people? They justify it by inviting whoever has decided to 6 regard that person as the other, not quite human, not us, the 7 other, different. And then they move from that to justifying 8 whatever else they're asking to you do. 9 Now, make no mistake, members of the jury, Sheikh 10 Abdel Rahman was convicted of very serious crimes. He was 11 being punished and we have seen no proper purpose in retrying 12 him here. But I also ask you to remember that the only 13 witnesses in this case, the live witnesses, the evidence which 14 is your exclusive province, yours to judge, nobody else's; the 15 only witnesses whoever testified they met and talked to Sheikh 16 Abdel Rahman after the SAMs were imposed in 1997 were Ramsey 17 Clark, Larry Schilling, Lynne Stewart, Mohammed Yousry, 18 Dr. Edwardy and the prison clerk Ms. Christiansen. They're the 19 only ones that met him, talked to him. And Mr. Fitzgerald, 20 even though he tried the case for nine months, didn't say he 21 had ever met him. Mr. Sattar never met him after the SAMs were 22 imposed. 23 So, the witnesses, with the exception of Dr. Edwardy 24 and the clerk, the real live people that actually met him and 25 talked to him were defense witnesses and they all told you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11967 51A5SAT1 1 about the effort to get him out of the United States so that he 2 would not be a lightning rod for protest. 3 Lynne Stewart Exhibit 1 is a heavily redacted 4 memorandum from the Bureau of Prisons in 1997 and it is a 5 pro-Bureau of Prisons document but it -- from Kathleen Hawk -- 6 and it talks about having a meeting to talk, discuss how to 7 best counteract the threat posed should inmate Rahman's health 8 seriously deteriorate or should he die while incarcerated. 9 Of course if he is dead he is not going to be urging 10 people to do violence -- he would be dead. But the government 11 would still fear that others might take advantage of the 12 situation which is exactly what we've been saying. 13 These real live people acting in good faith said that, 14 first, they regarded the SAMs as something that they could work 15 within and that they did in good faith and also that they 16 thought that it was reasonable to try to get him to Egypt. Not 17 to exonerate him. 18 You know, one of the things the evidence in this case 19 abundantly shows is that the Egyptians are very good at 20 punishing people and if the Sheikh chose to go there, that 21 would be a constructive thing to do. 22 And as I reminded you early on, the fact that two 23 government lawyers disagree about what the SAMs said is a 24 powerful, powerful statement. 25 And I don't want to forget and I will even take the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11968 51A5SAT1 1 risk of boring you by reminding you again in 1731 where Abdel 2 Rahman says that he doesn't want -- that's that June 23, 2000 3 call -- he doesn't even want Mr. Taha to get back from 4 Afghanistan and be involved in the IG work. 5 Now why is that significant? This part I didn't say. 6 It is significant because the allegation is that Lynne Stewart 7 somehow conspired to provide Abdel Rahman to a conspiracy to 8 kill or kidnap and involve Mr. Taha. Well, if her client 9 didn't want to be provided to Mr. Taha or have Mr. Taha 10 provided, it becomes very difficult to see how the government's 11 case makes any sense. 12 And Lynne Stewart told you that she understood who 13 Mr. Taha was, that he was someone who opposed the cease-fire. 14 And as you look at 1731 you will also see that any -- 15 Mr. Yousry is asking, he asks the Sheikh if he wants the Sheikh 16 to have Ms. Stewart call Mr. Taha. And the Sheikh says no. 17 Of course, there is no evidence that Lynne Stewart 18 would even know how to do it even if he wanted to have it done. 19 She didn't speak his language, no evidence she even knows where 20 he is, and indeed no evidence that that was ever translated for 21 Ms. Stewart. 22 Ms. Stewart also told you about the way lawyers do 23 their jobs. She said she never violated any undertaking or 24 promise she made. She said she was bound by the ethical rules 25 that governed lawyer behavior. She never violated any command SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11969 51A5SAT1 1 or restriction. 2 Now maybe that's hard to see. Maybe the idea that 3 lawyers representing these people that are accused of terrorism 4 makes folks a little nervous so let's take it out of that 5 context if we can as you consider the evidence and let me 6 suggest this to you. 7 In our jobs everybody -- everybody's job -- we're 8 governed by rules and the rules tell us how to do our job so 9 that we can take pride in our work. Don't tell me how to do my 10 job. People say that all the time about their own job. It's a 11 common complaint. And lawyers do have a special set of rules 12 that reinforce their right to say this. Don't tell me how to 13 do my job. Lynne Stewart testified, these are rules, ethical 14 considerations and aspirational rules that are governed by 15 state law. That's the oath you take to be a lawyer, this 16 obligation to use independent judgment, and I thought maybe I 17 could give you an analogy. 18 Do you remember Dr. Edwardy? He's the bald fellow, he 19 is the homeopathic or osteopathic physician that was the 20 medical director, spent his career first as a physician 21 assistant and then as a doctor working in the prison. And I 22 must say that there are some questions that we put to him and 23 arguments that we made that disagree with how he did his job. 24 So, I cross-examined him about the failure to 25 communicate with his patient about religion, about the fact SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11970 51A5SAT1 1 that his patient was isolated, isolated in a unique way about 2 how they have these special meetings with all these prison 3 officials, a chat with them, administrative people, and so on, 4 in the prison. 5 (Continued on next page) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11971 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 MR. TIGAR: That the isolation might have enhanced the 2 other senses. But the doctor gives daily reports, we also 3 brought out. He didn't go into the cell every morning and say: 4 Good morning, you dirty, convicted terrorist, how can we deal 5 with you today? He said: Good morning, you're in fine fetter 6 this morning. He would know, well, the patient is rather surly 7 today. How can I help you? He approached you as a 8 professional. 9 Then right at the end of his testimony, perhaps maybe 10 hoping I would score a point, I pulled out a prison rule about 11 how the Sheikh was to be treated if he had a life-threatening 12 illness. Was there anything different, I ask, about the way 13 that your patient was to be handled in the event of a serious 14 or life-threatening medical emergency as compared to other 15 people under your care? Sir, yes, there was. One of those 16 differences is that he could not be transported from the 17 special housing unit without direct authorization from the 18 warden? Special housing unit is another word for the isolation 19 cell. Bureaucratic talk. That's correct, he says. And that 20 was so even if he had a serious or life-threatening medical 21 emergency, correct? That's correct. And then I asked this: 22 And this was a matter that was decided by the warden consistent 23 with her responsibility, correct? Yes. 24 "Q And that is to say it was not a decision made by the 25 medical staff or the administrative staff, correct?" SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11972 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 And he shot back with an answer: That's correct. But 2 I do not believe that the warden would have ever overruled the 3 medical staff had we said that he was in danger of dying and 4 needed to be transferred. 5 Members of the jury, that is Dr. Edwardy's bubble. 6 That is Dr. Edwardy's supreme confidence that no matter what 7 that regulation said that he, a medical professional, would be 8 given the latitude to do his job by his rights. I submit to 9 you that is an analogy that bears some relationship to this 10 case. 11 Lynne Stewart got even more precise. First she talked 12 about the lawyer-client privilege. You remember the prosecutor 13 tried to cross-examine her with a Court of Appeals case. And 14 she made clear that the lawyer-client privilege, that's what 15 happens if a lawyer is talking directly to the client. That's 16 a privileged conversation. And that's narrower than the 17 lawyer-client relationship. How does the lawyer find out what 18 to talk to the client about? Well, by doing legal and factual 19 research, by going and finding facts. And she told you that 20 these principles about how doing that are matters of the 21 ethical considerations that are issued by the state bar where 22 she is a member. 23 And I asked her one at a time about those and read 24 them. They are not in evidence as exhibits, but I am going to 25 put up the text of them because they provide the framework for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11973 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 what she did. 2 History is replete of instances of distinguished 3 sacrificial services by lawyers who have represented unpopular 4 clients and causes. I'll skip down. A lawyer's representation 5 of a client, including representation by appointment, does not 6 constitute an endorsement of the client's political, economic, 7 social, or moral views or activities. That's an aspirational 8 standard of this profession. A lawyer is under no obligation 9 to act as advisor or advocate for every person who may wish to 10 become a client, but in furtherance of the objective of the bar 11 to make legal services fully available, a lawyer should not 12 lightly decline proffered employment. I submit to you that's 13 what Ramsey Clark said. 14 It is important that the world see that this case is 15 aggressively defended. The fulfillment of this objective 16 requires acceptance by a lawyer of a fair share of tendered 17 employment which may be unattractive both to the lawyer and the 18 bar generally. Given the consequences of Lynne Stewart doing 19 her job, coupled with the extremely modest fee that she 20 received, that consideration has a kind of an ironic aspect as 21 well as being relevant. 22 Then both the fiduciary relationship existing between 23 the lawyer and client and the proper function of the legal 24 system require the preservation by the lawyer of confidences 25 and secrets of one who has employed or sought to employ the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11974 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 lawyer. A client must feel free to discuss anything with his 2 or her lawyer and a lawyer must be equally free to obtain 3 information beyond that volunteered by the client. A lawyer 4 should be fully informed of all the facts of the matter being 5 handled in order for the client to obtain the full advantage of 6 our legal system. It is for the lawyer in the exercise of 7 independent professional judgment to separate the relevant and 8 important from the irrelevant and unimportant. The observance 9 of the ethical obligation of a lawyer to hold inviolate the 10 confidences and secrets of a client not only facilitates the 11 full development of facts essential to proper representation of 12 the client, but also encouraged nonlawyers to seek early legal 13 assistance. 14 Independent professional judgment, members of the 15 jury. And, of course, there will be many times when 16 prosecutors disagree. That's why it is called the adversary 17 system, not the do what the prosecutor wants system, not the 18 let the government make the final decision system. It is 19 called the adversary system and it is called independent 20 professional judgment. 21 A lawyer should exert best efforts to insure that 22 decisions of the client are made only after the client has been 23 informed of relevant considerations. 24 I won't read the whole thing. The testimony is there. 25 The duty of a lawyer, both to the client and to the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11975 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 legal system, is to represent the client zealously within the 2 bounds of the law, which includes disciplinary rules and 3 enforceable professional regulations, the professional 4 responsibility, to seek any lawful objective through legally 5 permissible means. And then: The bounds of the law in a given 6 case are often difficult to ascertain. I won't read it out. 7 It is there. Let me leave it on the board for a minute. 8 Those are the principles that Lynne Stewart was guided 9 by and that's what she testified to. She took the stand and 10 she testified about her understanding, not just of some 11 abstract general principles, but of these ideas that are 12 central to the functioning of the democratic society. 13 In this argument I began by talking about the 14 elements. I arraigned as best I could the prosecutor's 15 summation, what the evidence will show. They will get a 16 rebuttal summation. That's why I use my analogy, it wasn't my 17 obligation to build you a building. I was like the building 18 inspector that pointed out that there are reasonable doubts 19 whether this building they have tried to construct holds 20 together. I want to go back for a minute. The judge has told 21 you over and over again that he will instruct you on the law. 22 The judge has told you over and over again not to single out 23 any particular instruction. His instructions on the law will 24 cover several hours and you will have a copy of them in the 25 jury room. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11976 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 So maybe, maybe you will say, you know what, all this 2 lawyer talk, this lawyer rhetoric doesn't move me, defense 3 rhetoric, prosecution rhetoric. And I don't use the word 4 rhetoric as an insult. Rhetoric, which is the science of 5 argument. There are books on it. Go back 600 years B.C. 6 That's fine. It is an old honorable tradition. But maybe 7 that's not the way you choose to decide. Well, fine. You will 8 have the judge's instructions. Don't single out any one 9 instruction. 10 There are principles there, principles that are basic 11 to our system so that you could say, look, overall, I think 12 that Ms. Stewart was negligent, not guilty. I think she was 13 mistaken, but in good faith not guilty. I think she did the 14 conduct, but she didn't have the specific -- the intent that's 15 described in the judge's instructions not guilty. So many 16 roads to not guilty. And if you look at the matter that way, 17 which you may decide to do because it is your province to 18 figure out the case, you may see that this case is a great deal 19 less than the government has claimed, but also, members of the 20 jury, I am going to say this in a concluding bit in just a 21 little while. It involves a great deal more than they have 22 admitted. 23 You're going to have the indictment also. Members of 24 the jury, the judge will tell you that's just a charge. We 25 didn't draft it. It contains many, many allegations. The SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11977 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 essential matters I submit to you are the elements of the 2 offenses. And if there is any one element of any offense there 3 is a reasonable doubt on that charge as to Lynne Stewart, it is 4 your duty to vote not guilty. 5 You might even at the end of the day say, well, I 6 wouldn't hire Lynne Stewart. Not guilty. The bar should look 7 at Lynne Stewart by some lesser standard than beyond a 8 reasonable doubt. Not guilty. Or good faith. And when the 9 prosecutor puts up exhibits and asks you to look at them, I ask 10 you to look back at the context of this case, remembering each 11 time who it was that brought the live witnesses who really knew 12 something and who was offered evidence that was subject to 13 cross-examination and how the context was of particular things. 14 Of course, if they want to do more about Lynne 15 Stewart's politics, although the prosecutor summed up first and 16 said no more needs to be said, I think more will be said. 17 That's fine. Those who wrote the bill of rights were not 18 cowards. We have a society based on the bill of rights, 19 members of the jury. There are risks. There are risks from 20 people expressing unpopular ideas, risks that those who might 21 be guilty will be freed because there is not lawful evidence 22 beyond a reasonable doubt, risks that wild religious doctrine 23 will get loose and have a bad influence. And we take those 24 risks because with the decades of our freedom piled so high, 25 they are what makes a society great. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11978 51AMSAT2 Summation - Mr. Tigar 1 And members of the jury, I concede to you that I am 2 afraid. I'm afraid that the Islamic fundamentalists or some 3 other kinds of fundamentalists are going to win. Suppose we 4 got so worked up, so incited by the rhetoric of government that 5 we decided to punish people for their radical politics, because 6 their politics scared us or their religious doctrine appalled 7 us, or we decided to skip over reasonable doubt and do things 8 based on suspicion, decided to cast aside the presumption of 9 innocence and start accepting critically what government agents 10 tell us. 11 If all of that happened, members of the jury, the 12 fundamentalists would have won. They would have seen 13 extinguished the light of this last hope of earth, which is not 14 some particular country, but it is the very ideology of human 15 rights. Then the Islamic fundamentalists and all the 16 fundamentalists can have a big celebration. This is not the 17 time and place to make a cosmic decision about that. 18 But right now, you, once the judge instructs you on 19 the law, you are we, the people. Your power is as that of the 20 ancient kings. I'm not ashamed that knowing that to plead with 21 you to suggest that in shouldering the responsibilities and 22 accepting the risks of freedom, the next right thing to do is 23 very clear indeed. 24 Members of the jury, Lynne Stewart is in your hands. 25 She is not guilty. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11979 51AMSAT2 1 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will take a 2 ten-minute break. Please, please remember my continuing 3 instructions. Please don't talk about this case at all. 4 Please remember to continue to keep an open mind until I have 5 finally instructed you on the law. Let me just get 6 Mr. Fletcher for a moment. 7 All, rise. And the jury will follow Mr. Fletcher. 8 (Jury not present) 9 THE COURT: See you shortly. 10 (Recess) 11 (Continued on next page) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11981 51A5SAT3 1 (Page 11980 SEALED by order of the Court) 2 (Jury present) 3 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, the final summation 4 is the government's rebuttal summation. Please remember to 5 continue to apply all of my continuing instructions. Nothing 6 that the lawyers say is evidence. They submit to you what the 7 evidence has shown or not shown. I will instruct you on the 8 law. If any lawyer says any principle of law different from 9 what I instruct you it is my instructions on the law that you 10 must follow. 11 AS I say, the government, it is now time for the 12 government's rebuttal summation and that will be given by 13 Mr. Barkow. 14 Mr. Barkow? 15 MR. BARKOW: Thank you, your Honor. 16 I'm not going to stand up here and talk about, with 17 you Tallyrand, DeValera, Thomas Merton or Derrida, because I'm 18 not able to talk about those people that Mr. Tigar mentioned 19 because I don't even know who some of them are, but I'm okay 20 with that. 21 But what I do know, because I have been here with you 22 every day for the past seven months, is the evidence. The 23 evidence that I can talk about is the evidence. The evidence, 24 what you will use to make your decision in this case as you 25 took an oath to do because that's what fairness and justice to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11982 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 all parties and defendants, as well as the government requires. 2 So, I want to spend my time with you talking about the 3 evidence. 4 But before I do that I do want to say one thing about 5 one name that Mr. Tigar mentioned because everyone is familiar 6 with him -- Nelson Mandela. One of the greatest men in the 7 history of humanity, certainly in my lifetime. A man of peace. 8 And Mr. Tigar suggested to you that there is some parallel 9 between Nelson Mandela and Omar Abdel Rahman. 10 There is no place for that here and I couldn't go any 11 further without calling Mr. Tigar out on that one because 12 Nelson Mandela and Omar Abdel Rahman don't belong in the same 13 sentence, much less to be compared to. 14 And I also wanted to say a word or two about -- two 15 words that Mr. Tigar talked about, terrorism and terrorist. He 16 suggested to you that the government has been too loose with 17 its use of those words. The government has never said that 18 Lynne Stewart is a terrorist. No one from the government has 19 ever stood up before you and said to you that Lynne Stewart is 20 a terrorist. Not once. And I'm not going to do that either. 21 But Lynne Stewart is guilty of conspiracy to defraud the United 22 States, of making false statements twice of material support to 23 a conspiracy to murder and of conspiracy to commit -- to 24 provide material support to a conspiracy to murder. 25 Taha is a terrorist. Atia was a terrorist. Abdel SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11983 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Rahman is a terrorist. Osama Bin Laden, is a terrorist. Ayman 2 Al-Zawahiri is a terrorist. The Islamic Group is a terrorist 3 group. And killing innocent people and killing tourists is 4 terrorism under any definition of the terms. And I'm going to 5 call them what they are. 6 Lynne Stewart, I'll respond to the arguments that 7 Mr. Tigar made later but before I respond to any particular 8 arguments about any particular defendant, I ask you to step 9 back and remember what this case is really about. Ahmed 10 Sattar, Lynne Stewart and Mohammed Yousry were going to break 11 Omar Abdel Rahman out of jail no matter what. They were going 12 to break Abdel Rahman out of jail even though they knew if they 13 got caught they would be in trouble. They were going to break 14 Abdel Rahman out of jail and Sattar and Taha were going to 15 instigate Atia to commit a fatal attack. 16 These defendants were going to make sure that Omar 17 Abdel Rahman's Fatwahs, his powerful sanctions and blessings of 18 violence were heard around the world in Egypt, in Afghanistan, 19 and in the Middle East. 20 This is a case about a jail break. These defendants 21 broke Abdel Rahman out of jail in the only way that mattered, 22 in the way that allowed Abdel Rahman to continue to be the 23 spiritual leader of his terrorist followers, to tell them that 24 the time for peace had ended and the time to fire and kill had 25 returned and to inspire them to kill Jewish people wherever SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11984 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 they are. 2 Abdel Rahman is a terrorist and when he was convicted 3 of his crime of terrorism and sent away for the rest of his 4 life he was never able to walk the streets of the United States 5 or anywhere else ever again. But when you are dealing with a 6 terrorist like Abdel Rahman physically removing him is 7 meaningless because his danger is his message sanctioning and 8 justifying violence, terror and hate. 9 He's blind. He has been since he was a child and he 10 was when he committed his crimes and when he was convicted of 11 them. And he is not in jail because he is personally going to 12 attack you, he is a spiritual leader and the key to protecting 13 society from him is to prevent him from communicating his 14 hateful and violent message to his terrorist followers who will 15 commit violent acts with his blessing and his inspiration 16 killing and attacking tourists, Jewish people, Egyptian 17 government personnel and anyone else who doesn't adhere to his 18 radical interpretation of Islam. 19 And so, the SAMs were imposed upon him to protect 20 against the risk of death that could result without them, so 21 Abdel Rahman's message of hate and violence could be cut off so 22 his ability to control, lead and inspire terrorism by his 23 followers would be ended. Or so the United States government 24 thought. 25 Because Ahmed Sattar, Lynne Stewart and Mohammed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11985 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Yousry were going to break Abdel Rahman's message of violence 2 out of jail, instigate people to commit a fatal attack no 3 matter what even if it meant they knew that they would get in 4 trouble, even if it meant a return to the era of the Luxor 5 massacre when Ekkehart Hassels-Weiler hid behind an ancient 6 column at a sacred temple with his mother and his friends for 7 40 minutes listening to tourists screaming and wailing as they 8 were shot, as they were killed, listening to tourists saying 9 their last words to each other before they were killed; Ahmed 10 Sattar, Lynne Stewart and Mohammed Yousry were going to make 11 sure that Abdel Rahman could still inspire his followers to end 12 the cease-fire and to kill Jewish people wherever they are. 13 And so, they did. 14 They broke Abdel Rahman out of jail in the only way 15 that mattered and they spread Abdel Rahman's instructions in 16 violation of the SAMs, in violation of the affirmations and in 17 violation of the law in Egypt, in Afghanistan, around the 18 Middle East and around the world and that is what this case is 19 about. 20 Let's talk about Ahmed Sattar. 21 We hope that our brothers will help us to surprise our 22 enemy with a fatal attack. 23 That is what Atia told Ahmed Sattar and Sattar's 24 partner and co-conspirator Taha just before Sattar and Taha 25 told Atia about the Fatwah to kill Jewish people wherever they SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11986 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 are. And you didn't hear a single word about that from 2 Mr. Paul in his summation because nothing can be said to 3 explain it other than Ahmed Sattar wanted people to die. 4 It is a legitimate base. What happened in Luxor was 5 executed through it, that is, what Atia told Sattar and 6 Sattar's partner and co-conspirator Taha about himself and his 7 terrorist cell. He told them that he and his henchmen were a 8 legitimate terrorist base, a legitimate base, a legitimate 9 Qaeda or military base, a legitimate group of terrorists who 10 had carried out the Luxor massacre. He told Sattar and Taha 11 that before Sattar and Taha agreed with each other to tell Atia 12 to go by the Fatwah mandating the killing of Jewish people 13 wherever they are. 14 And Mr. Paul avoided this like the plague. He didn't 15 say a single word about it in his summation, about any of this 16 because there is nothing that can be said to explain it other 17 than Sattar wanted people to die. 18 Shall we instigate the people? That's what Taha asked 19 his partner and co-conspirator Ahmed Sattar when Sattar told 20 Taha to draft the Fatwah mandating the killing of Jewish people 21 wherever they are. 22 Sattar's answer? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 23 Yes. Because Sattar wanted the Fatwah to work. He wanted to 24 instigate Abdel Rahman's followers to kill. He wanted Jewish 25 people to die. And you didn't hear a word about this from SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11987 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Mr. Paul in his summation either because nothing can be said to 2 explain it other than Sattar wanted people to die. 3 This is the Fatwah that Ahmed Sattar wrote with Taha 4 in the name of Abdel Rahman that he relayed to Atia, the 5 Islamic Group's military leader and his cell. 6 About which has agreed with Atia to go by it, that he 7 wanted to instigate people to go by, including Atia, around the 8 Middle East, in Palestine, in Egypt, in Syria, in Lebanon and 9 in Jordan; to kill Jews, to target their interests, to target 10 their advocates. This is the Fatwah: 11 I, as a Muslim scholar, appeal to the scholars all 12 over our Islamic world to issue a unanimous Fatwah calling on 13 the Islamic nation to mandate the killing of Jews wherever they 14 are and wherever they are found. 15 That's Exhibit 1182X, page 15. 16 The jihad today is the duty of the entire nation of 17 Palestine and until the Aqsa Mosque is liberated, until the 18 Jews are driven to their graves or out of the countries or to 19 the countries where they came from. The Muslim youth 20 everywhere, especially in Palestine, Egypt, Syria Lebanon and 21 Jordan, they have to fight the Jews by all possible means of 22 jihad either by killing them as individuals or by targeting 23 their interests and their advocates -- meaning to assassinate 24 them wherever you find them. That's page 16. 25 I call on the Muslims everywhere to fulfill God's SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11988 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 obligation by waging jihad against the infidels, to follow them 2 and to slay them everywhere. 3 Now, Sattar wants you to let him off because he claims 4 this case is about words. No. 5 For Ahmed Sattar this case is about solicitation to 6 kill and that's how you solicit someone to kill, with words. 7 For Ahmed Sattar this case is about conspiracy or agreement to 8 kill and an agreement to circumvent the SAMs imposed on Abdel 9 Rahman so that convicted a terrorist and otherwise isolated 10 leader could stop directing and inspiring his followers to 11 commit violence. 12 Sattar wants you to let him off because he claims he 13 just wanted to help his fellow Muslims. 14 No. He wanted to help terrorists who wanted to return 15 to an era of violence and to the days of the Luxor massacre. 16 And Sattar insults the millions and millions of Muslims around 17 the world who love peace and deplore violence by suggesting 18 that his actions had anything to do with helping Muslims and 19 not with just helping terrorists. 20 Sattar wants you to let him off because he claims you 21 need to put what he did and he said in context. Which context 22 is that? The context of Sattar's co-conspirator and co-author 23 and partner, Rifa'i Taha's book -- an attempt to justify, under 24 Islamic law, the cold blooded murder of tourists, women, Jews, 25 Christians and the Egyptian government personnel? Taha, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11989 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 context of Taha's two Fatwahs in this case, one in 1998 with 2 Osama Bin Laden and the other in September 2000 with Bin Laden? 3 The context of the protocols of the old Zion which 4 Sattar had in his home which was used to justify the genocide 5 of Jewish people in Europe? What context does he want you to 6 put this in? The context of Nazi Germany? 7 Sattar wants to you let him off because he claims he 8 was just angry about Ariel Sharon and the tragic, tragic death 9 of the Palestinian child. 10 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, you've heard 11 reference in one of the prior summations and you just heard 12 reference in this summation to another country in another time 13 and I instruct you this case is about the evidence in this case 14 or the lack of evidence in this case and so be that. 15 And I will also instruct you that you must approach 16 the entire case without emotion and based solely upon the 17 evidence or lack of evidence in this case. 18 As I say, you have heard reference to another country 19 and another time, therefore you have just heard it again and I 20 instruct you to disregard it. 21 Go ahead. 22 MR. BARKOW: Mr. Sattar wants to you let him off 23 because he claims he was just angry about Ariel Sharon's visit 24 to the Aqsa mosque and the tragic death of the Palestinian boy. 25 He was just angry. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11990 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 That is what motivates terrorism, anger. Anger about 2 some cause or some event or some incident, some presence of 3 troops on foreign soil or Holy places. 4 Mr. Sattar told you that the American presence of 5 troops in Iraq in the 1990's caused an uproar in the Middle 6 East and he told you that he knew that Abdel Rahman was enraged 7 about the American troop presence in Saudi Arabia. And 8 sometimes terrorism is motivated by the very existence of 9 Israel in the Middle East, sometimes by Ariel Sharon's visit to 10 the Al-Aqsa mosque. And rather than talking about it racially, 11 civilly, politically and publicly, terrorists issue Fatwahs 12 calling for the death of innocent people and they kill innocent 13 people because they're angry about something. 14 Sattar wants you to let him off because he claims he 15 was just crying out. What did he cry out? Not tears, not 16 cries of sadness, not, oh, that poor Palestinian child. Not 17 stop the violence. Not even stop the violence against the 18 Palestinians not, don't forget Abdel Rahman, kill Jewish 19 people; as loudly and as widely as he could, kill Jewish 20 people; to the whole world via the internet and e-mail and 21 media, kill Jewish people; to Palestinians and others in the 22 Middle East in the midst of violence and considering joining 23 the violence, kill Jewish people; with his coauthor and 24 co-conspirator Taha, kill Jewish people; in the name of Abdel 25 Rahman, the spiritual leader of a terrorist group, kill Jewish SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11991 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 people; through the secret back channels that Sattar and Taha 2 had cultivated over months, kill Jewish people; to the fugitive 3 military leader of a terrorist group, Atia, who he recruited 4 not to follow the cease-fire Sattar cried out, kill Jewish 5 people. 6 Kill Jewish people with the blessing of Omar Abdel 7 Rahman who Sattar knew resolved disputes for members of the 8 Islamic Group and gives religious sanction to terrorist 9 operations for members of the Islamic Group. Kill Jewish 10 people, that is the religious edict and command that Sattar 11 cried out. 12 Now, Mr. Sattar claims that he didn't intend for 13 anyone to die and he puts a face on for you in this courtroom 14 that he is peace loving, he has Jewish relatives. I'm sure 15 some of his best friends are Jewish too because of course he is 16 going to tell you something like that but you know it's not 17 true. 18 The evidence shows you what he did and the recordings 19 at the time and in the dark of night in his home show what he 20 said then. Those recordings don't lie. They can't lie. 21 But when he told you that he didn't intend anyone to 22 die, he did lie. 23 Sattar's actions at the time tell you what he intended 24 because you can usually tell what someone intends by what they 25 do and Sattar's actions speak louder than Mr. Paul's words do SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11992 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 now. And what Sattar said at the time and what Sattar didn't 2 say at the time tell you what he intended and his words then 3 speak louder than his words that he tells you now to try to 4 save his skin. 5 Let's look at what Sattar did. For months he worked 6 with a militant -- someone who could be described as nothing 7 other than a militant genocidal maniac, Rifa'i Taha, to connect 8 him with the military leader of a terrorist group, Atia who 9 Sattar knew had killed innocent tourists. Why? So Taha could 10 tell Atia to kill, not to abide by the cease-fire, that Abdel 11 Rahman supported Taha's pro-violence position, that Abdel 12 Rahman mandated the killing of Jews and that Atia should go by 13 Sattar's and Taha's Fatwah mandating the killing of Jews. 14 Now, before I go further and talk about what Sattar 15 did, I need to make a quick point about these Atia-related 16 calls. About the Atia related calls Mr. Tigar said to you that 17 Mr. Dember said, quote, told you that this is not offered with 18 respect to Ms. Stewart so I'm not going to talk about it. It 19 is not offered with respect to Ms. Stewart. 20 But that's not quite right. Mr. Dember said that the 21 evidence that relates to Atia, the recordings that Atia is on 22 and that Atia's people are on, are all evidence that relates to 23 Counts Two and Three of the indictment. Ms. Stewart is not 24 charged in those counts and that's true. 25 But, more importantly, much more importantly, Judge SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11993 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Koeltl told you something different than what Mr. Tigar said. 2 Because when each one of these Atia-related calls was read to 3 you, Judge Koeltl gave you the same instruction. For example, 4 when Government Exhibit 1083X was read to you, transcript page 5 4752, Judge Koeltl instructed you that Goverment Exhibit 1083X 6 is offered as to and received only as to Counts Two and three. 7 It is received subject to connection against Mr. Sattar and it 8 can't be considered against Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the 9 truth of any of the matters asserted in the transcript. 10 So it's not correct to suggest, as Mr. Tigar did, that 11 the Atia calls are not admitted against Lynne Stewart. And 12 it's not to correct to suggest that you can't use them at all 13 to evaluate Lynne Stewart and whether she is guilty or not. 14 You just can't consider them with respect to Lynne Stewart for 15 the truth of the matters asserted but you can consider them 16 with respect to Lynne Stewart for reasons other than the truth. 17 What does that mean? 18 Well, for example, you can consider them with respect 19 to Lynne Stewart for the fact that something was said, for 20 example, that something was said to someone else -- Taha told 21 Atia about the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire; for 22 example, the fact that Taha used the withdrawal of support for 23 the cease-fire to recruit Atia; for example, the fact that Taha 24 used the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire to try to get 25 Atia to abandon the cease-fire. You can use it for that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11994 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Because you see, Lynne Stewart is charged in Counts Four and 2 Five with providing material support to the conspiracy to kill 3 charged in Count Two. And she provided that material support 4 by making Abdel Rahman available to the conspiracy to kill by 5 way of the withdrawal of support which was used to prepare for 6 and carry out the conspiracy to kill. 7 Why do I say all of this? Because Exhibit 1083X and 8 other calls are examples of how Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of 9 support for the cease-fire that Lynne Stewart and Mohammed 10 Yousry unleashed into the world was used in the field by 11 terrorists and I will point that out to you as I go along. 12 But let's get back now to Sattar. Government Exhibit 13 1083X, a call on May 19th of 2000, Mr. Paul skipped this one in 14 his summation. At page 9 Taha tells Sattar about Atia and he 15 says, I better call him. 16 And then on page 10 Taha says, I need elements like 17 this at this stage. 18 What stage is this? It's May 9th, 2000. Taha is just 19 about to get the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire that 20 he and Sattar have been working for for over a year. It's 10 21 days before Lynne Stewart and Mohammed Yousry visit Abdel 22 Rahman in the jail to fix what Ramsey Clark refused to do and 23 what Abdeen Jabara stopped from happening -- Abdel Rahman's 24 world broadcast of the blessing of a return to violence. 25 Why do Sattar and Taha need elements like the military SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11995 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 leader of a terrorist group when they're about to get the 2 withdrawal of support for the cease-fire? Because they need 3 someone on the ground ready to carry out terrorist operations 4 to fulfill the point of the withdrawal of support for the 5 cease-fire. 6 Why is Sattar helping Taha do this? Ariel Sharon 7 won't go to the Al-Aqsa mosque for four months and the 8 Palestinian boy hasn't died yet. Why? Because Sattar is 9 Taha's partner and co-conspirator and he has joined forces with 10 Taha and because Sattar and Taha want operatives on the ground 11 ready to kill. 12 Exhibit 1166X, this is a call on September 4th of 13 2000, just minutes before Taha gets on the phone with Hani. 14 Remember, Hani is the connect person to Atia. Sattar tells 15 Hani that Taha is bigger than Hamza. Sattar tells Hani on page 16 5, quote, you asked about two men before. One of them called 17 you, the other one who is bigger than him will call you now. 18 He's the one I told Mr. Ahmed about. 19 And six minutes later, in Government Exhibit 1167X, 20 Taha gets on the phone with Hani. Why does Sattar tell Hani 21 and through him Atia, that Taha is bigger than Hamza? 22 Mr. Dember told you why but Mr. Paul had no answer to that and 23 said nothing about it. Because bigger than means that Taha is 24 more important than Hamza and Sattar wants Atia to know that. 25 It means, listen to Taha and not to Hamza because Sattar knows SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11996 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 that Hamza had previously told Atia the opposite. He told him, 2 listen to me, Hamza, and nobody else, especially Taha. 3 What's Taha going to tell him? Taha is going to tell 4 Hani and Atia what to do. What is he going to tell him? 5 1167X, the same day, page 4, he says, we thought Hamza was in 6 charge. And on page 5 Taha tells Hani, no, the Islamic Group 7 listens to Abdel Rahman. Page 5, quote, the company has a 8 legal emir. He has been paid homage, his word is to be heard. 9 He tells him that those who support the cease-fire can't be 10 trusted. Quote, the inside people, like Muntasir and the 11 others, these people, we don't consider them trustworthy. 12 And then Taha tells Atia through Hani that the policy of the 13 Islamic Group is still to kill and the cease-fire is not 14 binding. He tells him do acts of terrorism if you can. Quote, 15 action or no action depends on capability. If people have 16 something they can do, they do it, end quote. 17 Mr. Dember told that you this meant do an act of 18 terrorism. Murder. Mr. Paul didn't say a word to disagree. 19 Taha tells Atia through Hani that killing depends on 20 capability, not on the cease-fire, because the cease-fire isn't 21 binding on Taha or Atia because they didn't commit to it. 22 Pages 8 and 9, quote, to do or not to do is subject to 23 capability, it is not governed by any other factor. It is not 24 subject to brothers so-and-so say we don't do, it's not subject 25 to a so-called initiative, it is not subject to change of our SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11997 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 relation with the regime, no. It is only subject to our 2 capability to work. If we can work, we work. So, it's subject 3 to capability and nothing else. We didn't make a promise to 4 anybody, the regime or any other. He who made the promise to 5 the regime may bear the responsibility of that promise. 6 Legally we are not committed to it so we have these things, no 7 change in method or thought and things are subject to 8 capability, they are not subject to an agreement with any other 9 party. We didn't commit ourselves to an agreement with any 10 party. 11 Taha tells Atia, if we can work, we work. Work is a 12 terrorist act. Mr. Dember told you that and Mr. Paul never 13 responded to that. He never disagreed. Taha is telling Atia, 14 commit acts of terrorism, kill people, and don't listen to the 15 cease-fire. 16 What does this show you? 17 It shows you that, well, Sattar set this call up by 18 saying that Taha is bigger than Hamza so he should be listened 19 to. And on the call that Sattar sets up that way Taha tells 20 Atia, commit murder. Commit action. Do work, and that the 21 cease-fire isn't binding. 22 And then Taha tells Atia, well, Salah Hashim, he 23 doesn't support the cease-fire but -- I'm sorry, Salah Hashim, 24 he supports the cease-fire but me, Taha? I don't. The youth 25 of the Islamic Group, they don't. And, most importantly, Abdel SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11998 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Rahman doesn't. So you, Atia, you shouldn't either. 2 Page 11, quote, yes, the engineer, that's Salah Hashim 3 is one of the people most supportive to the initiative, he and 4 the inside brothers. Most likely they are behind it, but most 5 men like you, myself and the big Sheikh -- that's Abdel 6 Rahman -- like the doctor, and other leadership people do not 7 approve of these things. 8 Here you see how the withdrawal of support for the 9 cease-fire that Lynne Stewart and Mohammed Yousry leashed into 10 the world is used. Taha tells Atia about Abdel Rahman's 11 support of violence. 12 Now, why is Taha telling him this? And why is Sattar 13 helping him do this? Ariel Sharon won't go to the Al-Aqsa 14 mosque for another month and Sattar doesn't know that the 15 Palestinian boy exists. 16 Sattar claims to you on the stand that Taha was doing 17 this because Taha wanted Atia to just support his position. 18 This is not a debating society or a community group, this is a 19 terrorist group that has killed people. And Taha is telling 20 Atia this and Sattar is helping him because Taha knows because 21 Sattar told him that Salah Hashim and Mustafa Hamza are telling 22 Atia, don't listen to Taha. And Taha wants Atia ready to kill 23 and not to abide by the cease-fire. Taha wants Atia to reply 24 to him that he is ready to and he will get it. 25 Now, ask yourself, how would a person respond to all SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11999 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 of this happening on their phone in calls that they set up and 2 listened to and that they said about before the call happened, 3 the guy who is going to tell you to go kill is bigger than the 4 guy who told you not to. How would somebody respond to that 5 who didn't want people to die for some twisted cause, who 6 didn't support violence when it supports his goals, who hadn't 7 partnered with Taha and who didn't think that the withdrawal of 8 support for the cease-fire was a call to arms, as Sattar 9 falsely claims to you that he thought? 10 Compare how you know a person like that would respond 11 to how Sattar responded and reacted. 12 At the end of this call, Government Exhibit 1167X, 13 page 17, Sattar says, quote, I'm happy this call was made. 14 Taha says, what do you think of what was said? 15 Sattar: Good, thank God. Good, good. 16 Not, what are you using me to do? Not get out of my 17 phone and get out of my life. Not I just want to help these 18 people travel. Not, I don't want anyone to get hurt or to die. 19 Why? Because that's what Sattar wanted. He wanted 20 people to die. He wanted the withdrawal of support for the 21 cease-fire to work and for violence to return. And Ariel 22 Sharon won't go to the Al-Aqsa mosque for a month and Sattar 23 doesn't even know that the Palestinian boy exists but Sattar 24 and Taha wanted Atia ready to kill. 25 So, Government Exhibit 1170X, a call on September 18th SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12000 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 of 2000, two weeks later and three days before Taha sits with 2 Osama Bin Laden on September 21st and issues a Fatwah. 3 Atia responds to Taha through Hani. What does Atia 4 say about his capability to act and his willingness to kill? 5 He says, page 3 and 4, quote, concerning the capacity it is a 6 legitimate base. What happened in Manfaloot, Tema, Qena and 7 Luxor and others was executed through it. After the initiative 8 was announced and after the declaration of the cease of the 9 work and with no regard to it. 10 Atia tells Taha we're legitimate, we're a legitimate 11 Qaeda, a terrorist military base. We killed innocent people in 12 disregard of the cease-fire. We didn't follow the cease-fire 13 before and we're not going to follow it again. We are 14 responsible for Luxor and others. We're responsible for 15 killing 62 people while Ekkehart Hassels-Weiler had to hide 16 behind a column with his mother. 17 And then Atia says he wants to and he's ready to do it 18 again. Pages 3 and 4, quote, regarding the preparation we hope 19 that our brothers will help us to surprise our enemy with a 20 fatal attack or at least it will be a step forward to a happy 21 ending. 22 Absolutely incredible. All you need to know to know 23 that Sattar is guilty is how he reacted to these two lines 24 because this is a different call than the one that Mr. Dember 25 and Mr. Paul argued about with each other and that Sattar SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12001 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 claimed on the stand to have missed. This is a different call. 2 The one they were talking about was Exhibit 1075X, 3 this is Government Exhibit 1170X, it's a different call, and 4 Sattar heard this one. And he doesn't say he missed it, not 5 now, not then, not ever. To the contrary, Sattar makes it 6 clear that he heard it. 7 How would someone react to this who is not a member of 8 a conspiracy to kill? Well, we know how one member of a 9 conspiracy to kill reacted -- Taha. 10 Taha tells Hani, page 13, that the response makes him 11 happy, quote, the points to make it clear, number one, what you 12 have read to me is good and God bless you. It made me happy. 13 And then Taha reminds him, Atia, that Abdel Rahman 14 supports him, Taha, again using the withdrawal of support for 15 the cease-fire. 16 Page 14 of 1170X, quote, the Sheikh said to me, I mean 17 the big doctor, many times, he said to me supporting my 18 opinion. 19 We know how another member of a conspiracy to kill, 20 Sattar, reacted too. He's happy too, page 18, Taha says, what 21 do you think about what you have heard? And Sattar says, I 22 hope it will be for the best because Sattar wanted people to 23 die. Ariel Sharon has not gone to the Al-Aqsa mosque and 24 Sattar doesn't even know the Palestinian child exists, but he 25 knows that Atia and his cell carried out the Luxor massacre and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12002 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 he knows that Atia wants to commit another fatal attack, and he 2 knows that Atia doesn't feel constrained by the cease-fire. 3 And Sattar, he thinks it's all for the best. 4 Now, Sattar didn't have to testify. None of these 5 defendants did. But they all did. And when a defendant 6 testifies, if they skip completely devastating evidence it 7 tells you something. It tells you that there is no explanation 8 for it. 9 None of these defendants had to testify, all of them 10 did. None of them had to do anything but they did and they 11 chose to testify. And once they're up there on the stand you 12 can look at what they told you and what they didn't tell you 13 just like you can with any other witness. 14 What did Sattar say on the stand about what Atia said 15 on this call? That Atia said what happened in Manfaloot, Tema, 16 Qema and Luxor and others was carried out through it. That we 17 hope to surprise our enemy with a fatal attack that they don't 18 feel bound by the cease-fire. What does Sattar say about that 19 on the stand? Nothing. He avoided it like the plague. He 20 said nothing to you. He gave you no explanation. 21 All Sattar said about this call and these statements 22 that Atia communicated through Hani on his phone is what he 23 said in Exhibit 1170X at 12, I hope it will be for the best. 24 Sattar hopes it will be for the best that the people 25 who carried out the Luxor massacre won't follow the cease-fire SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12003 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 and want to commit a fatal attack. 2 And Mr. Paul? What did he say about what Atia said to 3 Taha and Sattar? Mr. Dember argued this point at length. 4 Mr. Paul, he didn't say a word about it. 5 Why didn't Mr. Paul argue about it or Mr. Sattar try 6 to explain it? Because no explanation can be given other than 7 Sattar wanted people to die and Ariel Sharon won't go to the 8 Al-Aqsa mosque for a few weeks and Sattar doesn't even know 9 that the Palestinian boy exists. 10 Now, Mr. Dember told you that Sattar joined the 11 conspiracy to kill in September of 1999. And in fact, in 12 September of 1999 Sattar wrote this, which was found on his 13 computer, relaying Abdel Rahman's words, Government Exhibit 14 2204AT, quote, permission to take up arms is hereby given. 15 And by September 2000 in Exhibit 1170X, which I was 16 just talking about, Sattar and his partner Taha have come 17 treacherously close to realizing their goal to return to the 18 era of violence that existed before the cease-fire. They've 19 secured the end of support for the cease-fire by Abdel Rahman, 20 the spiritual leader of the group; they've told Atia, the 21 military leader of the Islamic Group that Abdel Rahman doesn't 22 support the cease-fire anymore; and Ariel Sharon hasn't gone to 23 the Al-Aqsa mosque and Sattar doesn't know that the Palestinian 24 boy even exists. 25 And now all Sattar and Taha need to tell Atia is who SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12004 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 to kill and that it is religiously justified to do it because 2 the emir of the group says that Atia will still go to heaven. 3 Let's talk about the Fatwah. 4 Sattar wanted Jewish people to die. Let me recap 5 briefly what Sattar did with the Fatwah because, from what he 6 did, you know what he meant and what he thought. 7 The Fatwah is a solicitation to kill. Sattar told 8 Taha to write it. Sattar wanted it to work. He wanted Jewish 9 people to die so he made sure it was written in Abdel Rahman's 10 name. Sattar wanted it to work so badly, he wanted Jews to die 11 so badly he made sure it sounded real like Abdel Rahman wrote 12 it. And Sattar relayed the Fatwah to Atia so Sattar and Taha 13 would have troops on the ground ready to carry it out after 14 months of influencing Atia not to follow the cease-fire. 15 Sattar agreed with Taha to tell Atia to go by the 16 Fatwah, to tell Atia actually to kill Jewish people. And 17 Sattar distributed it to the world in the midst of violence and 18 enflamed times in the hopes to get at least one person to carry 19 it out. He calls it crying out but you know what it is. You 20 know it as terrorism. 21 You can't go kill innocent people or agree to have 22 innocent people killed because you're mad about something, some 23 policy or some action by some government. You can't go kill 24 innocent Jewish people because you're mad about Israeli policy 25 or a visit to a Holy cite by an Israeli politician just like SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12005 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 crazy sick people can't come here and attack America because 2 they're mad about some American policy. That's terrorism. 3 That's the cold-blooded murder of innocent people just because 4 you're angry. And here it's a conspiracy to kill and a 5 solicitation to kill. 6 Sattar told Taha to write the Fatwah. He told Taha 7 who he knew and who was the founding leader of a terrorist 8 group who he knew had written 300 pages of hate in his book, 9 Exhibit 2700, claiming to say why it was good and okay under 10 Islamic law to kill women, children, old people, Jews and 11 Christians. 12 He told Taha who was and who he knew was a close 13 associate of Osama Bin Laden and who he knew had signed two 14 Fatwahs with Osama Bin Laden, one in February 1998 calling for 15 the killing of Americans and one in September 2000. 16 Let me make one thing clear about Osama Bin Laden 17 right now. This is not a case about guilt by association. 18 That is not allowed in the United States of America and for 19 good reason. 20 Sattar is not guilty because he associated with Taha. 21 He's guilty because he wrote a Fatwah with Taha and because 22 with Taha he gave the Fatwah to Atia and told him to go by it. 23 And the fact that Taha associated with Osama Bin Laden 24 and issued two Fatwahs with Osama Bin Laden, one to kill 25 Americans and the other just two weeks before Taha and Sattar SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12006 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 get a Fatwah to Atia doesn't make Sattar guilty. 2 The fact that Sattar wrote a Fatwah with Taha, gave it 3 to Atia and agreed to tell him to go by it, that makes him 4 guilty. 5 But Judge Koeltl never -- never -- instructed you that 6 Osama Bin Laden would have nothing to do with the case, quote 7 unquote, as Mr. Paul argued to you that he did, to suggest that 8 the government did something wrong with its presentation of the 9 evidence regarding Osama Bin Laden. 10 All Judge Koeltl told you was that Osama Bin Laden is 11 not a co-conspirator in the case. Quote, Osama Bin Laden is 12 not alleged to be a member of any conspiracies in this case. 13 Transcript page 5327. 14 Osama Bin Laden is not a co-conspirator and the 15 government has never said that he is, but there is a legitimate 16 connection between every piece of evidence that the government 17 put into evidence in this case and the charges in this case and 18 the evidence about Osama Bin Laden speaks volumes. It was 19 admitted in evidence in the case and it tells you something. 20 It tells you Taha wasn't just hanging out in Afghanistan, he 21 was with Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden issuing Fatwahs. And 22 Sattar knew that because the evidence shows that Sattar read 23 the February 1998 Fatwah when it came out. And Sattar watched 24 on TV the September 2000 Fatwah while it was happening. He 25 talked to Taha about it while he was watching it in Exhibit SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12007 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 1173X. And knowing all that Sattar, nonetheless, issued a 2 Fatwah with Taha to kill Jewish people. 3 Mr. Paul says, well, in 1998 and 2000 no one knew who 4 Osama Bin Laden was. But the truth is and the evidence shows 5 that Sattar knew what a monster he was because Sattar knew that 6 Osama Bin Laden had been charged with the bombing of two 7 embassies in Africa that killed hundred of people. He even had 8 a copy of the indictment. That's at transcript page 10965. 9 And Sattar knew that Taha was a close associate of 10 Osama Bin Laden. But Sattar partnered with Taha anyway to kill 11 Jewish people and to tell Atia not to abide by the cease-fire. 12 So, what did Sattar do next that tells you that you 13 know, that lets you know that Sattar wanted a Fatwah to work 14 and Jewish people to die? He forwarded it to Yasser Al-Sirri 15 for worldwide distribution. He didn't really change what Taha 16 had drafted. The Fatwah still called for the killing of Jewish 17 people, all Jewish people, and for the targeting of Americans. 18 As published it said, kill Jews everywhere. Kill them. 19 Not debate with them, throw a rock at them, discuss 20 things with them -- kill them. Target Jewish interests and 21 target their advocates. Which Mr. Sattar said included 22 Americans. 23 And Sattar testified though that he couldn't have 24 meant for this Fatwah to work because the word "advocates" 25 would have included himself and his family. And it's true, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12008 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Sattar is an American citizen and he has been for a long time 2 and so are the members of his family American citizens. But 3 there are millions of other Americans other than Sattar and his 4 family. There are Americans who live, work and travel all 5 around the world and all around the Middle East and, in fact, 6 there was no risk that Atia or anyone else would show up on 7 Sattar's doorstep on Staten Island and carry out the Fatwah and 8 target Sattar or his family because terrorists can't kill all 9 Americans, they choose targets with symbolic value, and Staten 10 Island and the author of the Fatwah is probably not on their 11 list. 12 And, in fact, the charges here are of a conspiracy to 13 kill people outside the United States. 14 When Sattar issued this Fatwah around the world he 15 meant for it to work, for Jews to be killed and for the 16 advocates of Jews to be targeted. He wanted it to work. He 17 wanted Jewish people to die. Immediately when he told Taha to 18 write it Taha asked him, do you want it to work? Government 19 Exhibit 1179X, October 3, 2000, pages 12 and 2, Taha and 20 Sattar, do you want it to work, shall we instigate the people? 21 And Sattar says, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 22 What does he want to instigate them to do? Mr. Paul 23 skipped this in his summation and Sattar skipped it on the 24 stand because there is no answer to that question other than 25 Sattar wanted to instigate the killing of Jewish people, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12009 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 targeting of their interests, the killing and assassination of 2 Jewish people and the seeking of revenge. 3 Sattar wanted it to work so badly and has wanted Jews 4 to die so badly he put it in Abdel Rahman's name. It was 5 signed Omar Abdel Rahman. Not Ahmed Sattar the postal worker 6 living and working on Staten Island. Not even in the name of 7 Taha. Why? Why did Sattar make it in the name of Abdel 8 Rahman? The world renown and influential spiritual leader of a 9 terrorist group who everyone knows whose religious sanction 10 gives terrorists freedom to kill and still go to heaven. 11 Instead of putting it in his own name, the person supposedly 12 crying out? 13 Mainly because, as Mr. Paul said in his summation, no 14 one could care less what Ahmed Sattar had to say. Because if 15 it were in Sattar's name, no one could care less and it 16 wouldn't work. So, Sattar put it in Abdel Rahman's name so 17 people would care and so it would work. And he wanted to make 18 it work so badly that he didn't just put it in Abdel Rahman's 19 name, he made sure it sounded like Abdel Rahman actually said 20 it. 21 Exhibit 1182X, page 27, this is a call on October 4th 22 of 2000. Sattar tells Al-Sirri, quote, make sure the signature 23 shall be your brother Omar Abdel Rahman, a scholar of honorable 24 Al-Azhar. 25 Sattar wanted this to work so badly he didn't just SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12010 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 casually put it in Abdel Rahman's name, he made sure it was 2 published in Abdel Rahman's name. And Mr. Paul skipped it in 3 summation and Mr. Sattar skipped it on the stand. 4 And I think I just misspoke, but Sattar meant for it 5 to work so badly that he didn't just make sure it was in Abdel 6 Rahman's name, he made sure it sounded like Abdel Rahman 7 because in Government Exhibit 1179X, October 3rd, 2000, pages 3 8 and 4, Sattar gives Taha a copy of an old Fatwah by Abdel 9 Rahman from Sattar's personal collection so Taha can use it as 10 a model to make sure it sounds like Abdel Rahman really said 11 it. 12 1183X, October 5, 2000, page 3, Sattar and Taha 13 confirmed with each other that the, quote, style and the 14 phrases are, quote, close to the man. 15 The style and phrases are close to Abdel Rahman. What 16 style is that? Sattar told you on the stand, transcript page 17 10015, firey and anti-Jewish. 18 Sattar wanted the Fatwah to serve the purpose of a 19 Fatwah, to cause violence because it gave religious sanction to 20 murder. 21 Why did Sattar think that he needed a Fatwah to make 22 sure that terrorist operations would be carried out and become 23 a reality? You know why. Because Sattar knew that Abdel 24 Rahman was the emir and the spiritual leader of the Islamic 25 Group and he knows that Islamic Group members like Atia need, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12011 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 quote, a leader who is a religious figure to make sure that 2 their conduct and policies were carried out in accordance with 3 the laws of Islam, end quote. Transcript page 10410. 4 And Sattar himself believes that one has to do things 5 and only things that are sanctioned under the laws and rules of 6 Islam in order to go to heaven when one dies, transcript page 7 10411. 8 And Sattar knew that Abdel Rahman had told his 9 followers in the past to get Fatwahs before they carried out 10 terrorist operations like suicide bombings. Government Exhibit 11 2077T, page 4, this was something Sattar had in his home. 12 Abdel Rahman was asked this question: Is it right to commit 13 suicide for the purpose of jihad like strapping explosives 14 around one's body and detonating them among the enemies and 15 dying with them? 16 Abdel Rahman's answer: If you wish to do something 17 like that come to me and ask me and get a Fatwah approval by 18 agreeing to it or not. If you have the intention, huh, that, 19 if you want to commit a suicide operation. But for you to ask 20 and you're sitting here, nothing will happen. 21 Nothing will happen if you are just sitting here but 22 come ask me. If you want a Fatwah, I will give it to you. 23 Sattar knew because he knew that Mustafa Hamza had 24 said it, the leader of the Islamic Group, that the Islamic 25 Group and its members, like Atia, need and get Fatwahs before SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12012 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 carrying out terrorist operations of murder like killing 2 innocent tourists in order to justify it under Islamic law. 3 Exhibit 2044T, page 6, and transcript 10419. Mustafa Hamza 4 says, the Islamic Group and its members get Fatwahs before they 5 carry out terrorist acts. 6 Sattar wanted his fatwah to serve what he knew to be 7 the purpose of a Fatwah, to give permission under the rules and 8 the laws of Islam and religious cover to murder. 9 Sattar wanted the Fatwah to be carried out, he wanted 10 it to work and he wanted Jews to die so he actually relayed the 11 Fatwah to Atia and his henchmen, his recruited killer on the 12 ground. 13 Mr. Paul tried to divide this case into units. 14 Remember, he said, well, there is the Atia unit and there is 15 the Fatwah unit. And he wants to do that and he wants you to 16 do that because he knows, if you think about for just one 17 second that Sattar wrote this Fatwah and gave it to Atia and 18 agreed with Taha to tell Atia to go by it, you are going to 19 find him guilty. 20 But this isn't a case about separate units. And the 21 Fatwah and Atia can't be separated because Sattar recruited 22 Atia for months not to abide by the cease-fire and then he gave 23 him the Fatwah and he agreed to tell him to go by it. Those 24 are not separate units, that's one unit, and that one unit 25 tells you that Sattar is guilty. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12013 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 The calls in which Sattar gives Atia the Fatwah are 2 1191X, 1194X at pages 18 and 19, and 1197X. Those are calls on 3 October 10th and October 16th of 2000. 4 In 1191 -- Mr. Paul skipped that one. Sattar tells a 5 member of Atia's cell about the Fatwah which is exactly what he 6 agreed with Taha to do just the day before in 1188X and 1189X. 7 And then 1194X, pages 18 and 19, Mr. Paul skipped this 8 one too. Sattar tells Taha that he gave Atia the internet 9 address for the Fatwah and Atia and his men are going to look 10 it up and get it. Sattar says, that's good. That's good. 11 1197X, Mr. Paul skipped this one too, Sattar tells 12 Taha on pages 2 and 3 that Sattar confirmed with Atia himself 13 that the Fatwah was actually issued by Abdel Rahman. 14 And then Atia asks Sattar, how did the statement get 15 out? 16 Sattar says, don't ask. 17 Why doesn't Sattar want Atia to know that the Fatwah 18 was written by him and not Abdel Rahman who Sattar took such 19 great pains to make sure it sounded like he wrote it? Because 20 you know why. Because Sattar wanted it to work. He wanted 21 Jewish people to die. He wanted Atia to go by it. 22 Now, Sattar claims this was just a momentary fit of 23 anger about Ariel Sharon and the Palestinian child. That's 24 just a lie. He told Atia about the Fatwah on October 10th, 25 11th and 16th, and Ariel Sharon visited the Al-Aqsa mosque and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12014 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 the Palestinian boy died in September. And between that time 2 and the time that Sattar gives the Fatwah to Atia and tells him 3 to go by it, days passed. Sattar wakes up, presumably goes to 4 work, goes to sleep, wakes up, goes to sleep, goes to work, 5 whatever. He had 12 days to get over his anger and to think. 6 He had 12 days before he gave Atia the Fatwah and told him to 7 go by it; 12 days and nights to get over his anger and come up 8 with something peaceful to say like stop the violence, or stop 9 the violence against Palestinians. 10 And Mr. Paul wants you to think about how calm Sattar 11 was up on the stand when under fire on cross-examination. This 12 supposedly calm and thoughtful man over 12 days, instead of 13 using those 12 days to come up with something peaceful to say, 14 instead uses that period to plot and scheme the revenge and 15 death that he wants, the death of innocent Jewish people and 16 revenge at the hands of Atia. And anyone else in the world who 17 might act like it. 18 Sattar claims that Atia was just a fugitive who he 19 just wanted to help travel, not someone he is who was getting 20 ready to kill. 21 Was Sattar his travel agent? Was the Fatwah his train 22 ticket or itinerary or passport. Was he telling him, in your 23 travels, stop by Jerusalem on the way? 24 That makes no sense. Sattar wanted Jews to die and 25 that's why he did what he did. I have made reference to it, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12015 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Sattar wanted this to work so badly that he agrees to tell Atia 2 to go by it. 3 1188X, pages 5 and 6, call on October 9, 2000, 12 days 4 after Ariel Sharon's visit to the Al-Aqsa mosque, after the 5 Palestinian boy, Taha sells Sattar, quote, I want to tell them 6 to take courage. The man issued a Fatwah, you are supposed to 7 go by it. 8 Sattar's response: Yes. 9 I want to tell them to take courage, the man issued a 10 Fatwah. You are supposed to go by it. Yes. 11 Taha says each one of these things on pages 5 and 6 to 12 Sattar and to each one Sattar says yes. 13 I want to tell them to take courage, the man issued a 14 Fatwah, you are supposed to go by it. Yes. 15 Can you contact them tomorrow at 10:30? Yes 16 Tell them I want to talk to them. Yes 17 Tell them about the Fatwah, there must be the scale of 18 our good deeds, even if it's not credited to anyone. What is 19 he talking about there? Kill someone, even if it is not 20 credited to someone. Sattar says yes. 21 They will them in general terms, God willing. Yes. 22 Tell them about the Fatwah. If the man calls, read 23 everything to him. Yes. 24 To each one of these things Sattar says yes because he 25 wanted Atia to take courage. Abdel Rahman had issued a fatwah SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12016 51A5SAT3 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 and he and Taha wanted Atia to go by it. And no surprise but 2 Mr. Paul skipped all of this in his summation and Sattar, he 3 skipped it too. Ask yourself, how could a person respond to 4 all of this telling Atia to go by the Fatwah who didn't want 5 people to die for some twisted cause, who didn't support 6 violence when it supported his goals, who hadn't partnered with 7 Taha and Sattar falsely claims to you about himself that he 8 did? Compare how you know someone like that would respond to 9 how Sattar responded. 10 Government Exhibit 1188X, page 7, Sattar says, yes. 11 Yes, sure. Of course. We wouldn't let a chance like this go. 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12017 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 MR. BARKOW: Not get off of my phone and out of my 2 life? Not, I thought this was just a case about words. Go by 3 it? Not, I just want to help these people travel. What are 4 you talking about, go by it? Not, I don't want anyone to get 5 hurt. Go by it? 6 Why did Mr. Paul and Sattar skip this? Why didn't 7 Sattar say these things that I'm talking about? There is only 8 one answer to those questions, because Sattar wanted people to 9 die. Yes, sure, we wouldn't let a chance like this go. This 10 is our chance, telling Atia to go by the fatwah to kill is our 11 chance. We wouldn't let a chance like this go. We wouldn't 12 let a chance like this go. We have got our man, our terrorist 13 in the field, and we would not allow a chance like this to go. 14 This is helping Muslims? This is crying out? This needs 15 context? No. 16 This is a conspiracy to kill and a solicitation to 17 kill. And telling Atia to go by a fatwah by Abdel Rahman and 18 telling Atia that it is okay to kill innocent people because 19 Abdel Rahman says, if you do it, you're still going to go to 20 heaven and telling Atia, go kill people so I can get my 21 revenge, that is a conspiracy to kill and a solicitation to 22 kill. 23 Mr. Paul wants you to put this in context, but 24 Mr. Paul skips all the context. He ignores the months of 25 recruiting Atia and not ignoring the ceasefire. He ignores the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12018 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 fact that Sattar tells Atia to go by the fatwah after Atia told 2 Taha and Sattar that him and his men carried out the Luxor 3 attack. He ignores the fact to go by the fatwah after Atia 4 told Taha and Sattar to go for a fatal attack. He ignores the 5 fact that Sattar told Atia to go by the fatwah and he saw that 6 as a chance he couldn't let go. Mr. Paul wants you to look at 7 the context, but he skips all the context because the context 8 supplied by the evidence shows you that Sattar is guilty. 9 And as if it weren't enough that Sattar got this 10 fatwah into the hands of a proven killer, Atia, I'm almost 11 tired of saying it but Mr. Paul skipped this, too. Sattar 12 disseminating it by the thousands to the whole world so maybe 13 at least one person would go out and kill a Jewish person so 14 Sattar could get his revenge. 15 1182X, October 4, 2000. Sattar has a conversation 16 with Al-Sirri about the dissemination of the fatwah, pages 8 17 and 20. They talk about how the fatwah will reach everyone, 18 every location. It will get the necessary attention. It will 19 be on the TV, the radio, the news agencies, the Italian news 20 agency, the French, the Reuters, the Italians, they will all it 21 pick it up. People will find it on their fax and their e-mail 22 first thing in the morning. 23 Those are all quotes on that call. 1186X, October 6 24 of 2000, Sattar and Taha -- Sattar tells Taha, people are 25 disseminating it by the thousands. 1252X, October 6, 2000, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12019 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 Taha and Sattar talk about how it is being reported on 2 Al-Jazeera and in Al-Hayat. Sattar wasn't content with it just 3 getting to Atia. He wanted it all over the world. A Jihad 4 army. Abdel Rahman says, if you kill just people, you will 5 still go to heaven because it only takes one person to kill 6 someone. It only takes one person to carry out Sattar's 7 fatwah. It only takes one person to kill an innocent Jewish 8 person. 9 Mr. Paul argues that Atia -- Sattar thought he just 10 wanted to travel and he wasn't going to commit any violence. 11 Of course, he is going to say something to you about this. 12 What else did he say? Of course, Atia was traveling. He was a 13 fugitive. He was a killer on the run from the government. So 14 was Taha. By all indications Atia had been in hiding or in 15 jail or somewhere for some time. He was a killer on the loose 16 living in a sugar cane field. People like that want to run and 17 want to travel. But Sattar knew exactly what Atia was. He was 18 a killer. He was the military leader of a terrorist group. He 19 had killed innocent people. He had carried out the Luxor 20 massacre. Sattar admitted to you on the stand, transcript page 21 10413: 22 "Q At the time you were having these conversations, you knew 23 Atia was a military leader in the Islamic Group in Egypt, 24 right? 25 "A Yes, yes. I know he was the Islamic Group military leader, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12020 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 yes, I knew that. 2 "Q That is the part of the group that carries out terrorist 3 operations, right? 4 "A Yes. Sattar knew that Atia was the military leader of the 5 Islamic Group at the time he made the calls, the part of the 6 Islamic Group that carries out terrorist attacks. Sattar 7 doesn't need to know any more than that." 8 Sattar knew what Atia was before he recruited Atia 9 along with Taha, not to abide by the ceasefire. 10 By January 17 of 2000, Sattar knew that Atia had 11 succeeded Farid Kidwani as the military leader of the Islamic 12 Group in Egypt, 1031X, October 23, 1999, page 2. Al-Sirri 13 tells Sattar that Allah Abdel Raziq had replaced Farid Kidwani 14 as leader of the military wing. Al-Sirri, there are new 15 leaders for the group. 1048X and 1050X on January 17 of 2000. 16 Then Hani tells Sattar that Hammam Badwari is his boss and 17 Hammam Badwari is Allah Abdel Raziq. Fawzi says -- Hani is 18 Fawzi, going under that name, Fawzi. Hammam Badwari is 19 Mr. Allah, Allah Abdel Raziq. That's 1050X. 20 By January 17 of 2000, Sattar knew that Atia was the 21 leader of the military wing of the Islamic Group in Egypt, 22 before he recruited him not to abide by the ceasefire. 1170X, 23 September 18 of 2000, Sattar knew Atia was responsible for the 24 Luxor massacre and that he wanted a fatal attack before Sattar 25 told Atia about the fatwah and agreed to tell him to go by it. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12021 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 As I said, this is a different call than the one that Sattar 2 testified about having missed, and that Mr. Dember and Mr. Paul 3 argued back and forth about Sattar having taken a break during 4 his testimony. This is a different call. 5 The one they were talking about, that was 1075X. This 6 is 1170X, on September 18 of 2000. Sattar skipped this one 7 entirely on direct and Mr. Paul ignored it completely when he 8 argued. Why would they do that? Let's see. 1170X, Atia says 9 through Hani that Atia carried out the Luxor massacre and he 10 wants to do another fatal attack. First, concerning the base, 11 the capacity and the obligations. It is a legitimate base. It 12 is a legitimate base. We have to focus on it. What happened 13 in Manfaloot, Tema, Qena, and Luxor and others was executed 14 through it. After the initiative was announced and after the 15 declaration of the cease of the work and with no regard to it, 16 he goes on. 17 Secondly, Atia, through Hani, regarding the 18 preparation, we hope that our brothers will help us to surprise 19 our enemies with a fatal attack. And Sattar heard this one for 20 sure because on page 18 Taha asks him: What do you think about 21 what you have heard? And Sattar doesn't say, I missed it. I 22 was out having a cigarette and a cup of coffee. He says: I 23 hope it will be for the best. 24 So on September 18, 2000, Sattar knew that Atia had 25 carried out the Luxor massacre and two weeks later he tells SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12022 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 Atia in his cell about the fatwah and he agrees with Taha to 2 tell Atia to go by it. Sattar knew that Atia wanted to commit 3 another fatal attack and just wanted his brothers to help him, 4 help him by telling him it was religiously justified, and just 5 two weeks later Sattar gives him the fatwah and tells Atia: If 6 you kill people, you will still go to heaven, commit your fatal 7 attack. 8 Do you need to know any more? Atia and his men 9 slaughtered 62 people in Luxor. Sattar knew it. And two weeks 10 later he gives Atia the fatwah and agrees to tell him to go by 11 it. As if you have needed any more, Government Exhibit 1187X 12 on October 6 of 2000, Sattar reads an article to Taha talking 13 about how Atia was the new military leader of the Islamic 14 Group, pages 10 and 11. Taha says -- Sattar reads the article 15 and it says: Atia is the new military leader, the part of the 16 group that carries out terrorist attacks and Taha says: Oh, 17 I'm telling you, they have good details. 18 Three days later Sattar agrees to tell Atia to go by 19 the fatwah and then the next day he gives him the fatwah. And 20 none of this has anything to do with the calls that Sattar 21 claims that he missed, the call that Sattar claimed that he 22 missed and he heard in the first time in this courtroom and 23 Mr. Dember and Mr. Paul argued about. Mr. Paul ignored this 24 completely because they tell you that Sattar is guilty. 25 But Mr. Paul argues that Atia just wanted to travel, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12023 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 not to kill, based on three calls. He gives you 1205X, 1209X, 2 both government exhibits, and AS-6, a Sattar exhibit. Those 3 are calls on October 23, November 2, and November 12, 4 respectively. 1205 is October 23; 1209 is November 2; AS-6 is 5 November 12. 1205X is the one where Sattar says: The man only 6 wanted to get out of the trouble he had. These three calls 7 prove absolutely nothing. In 1205X itself, on page 10, before 8 Sattar says that Atia just wanted to get out of the trouble he 9 had, Al-Sirri asked Sattar: Well, how did this happen? How 10 did they catch and kill Atia? And Sattar says: "For your 11 information, 99 percent, I expect it is from here. 12 Another section of another call skipped by Mr. Paul in 13 his summation and by Sattar on direct: Sattar is 99 percent 14 sure that Atia is dead because of what was heard on Sattar's 15 own phone. Sattar is 99 percent sure that someone is listening 16 to his calls and that that someone went out and killed Atia. 17 1205X is the day after Sattar had Taha call him on Odeh's cell 18 phone. That's on October 22, 2000, 1202X, and October 23, 19 1203X. Mr. Paul argued it is just nonsense for Mr. Dember to 20 suggest that Sattar had Taha call on Odeh's phone to avoid 21 detection. Of course, that's why Sattar had Taha call on that 22 phone to avoid detection. It is the day that he is 99 percent 23 sure that his phone is being listened to by governments who go 24 out and call Atia. That's what's in Sattar's head. He thinks 25 he is 99 percent sure someone is listening to him. Sattar is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12024 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 not calling Odeh to buy baby milk. He is calling to talk about 2 the Cole. And Sattar knows that his phones are being listened 3 to. 4 And both of the other calls relied on by Mr. Paul to 5 say that Atia just wanted to travel come after that, after 6 Sattar is 99 percent sure that his calls are being intercepted. 7 This is a man, Sattar, who says on Ahmed Sattar Exhibit 4, page 8 17: I'm very calculating when I speak with anyone. Those are 9 his words. 10 Now, he can't necessarily keep it straight all the 11 time. But when he needs to be, he is very calculated. And 12 when he is 99 percent sure that a government is listening to 13 his calls, he is going to try to protect himself. He is 14 calculating. And so on the heels of thinking and being 99 15 percent sure that Atia is dead because of what he said on his 16 phone, he makes self-serving statements about how Atia was just 17 trying to get out of trouble. But that ignores all of the 18 evidence and all of the context that I have just gone through 19 with you. Atia just wanted to travel and wasn't ready to kill? 20 No. Atia was the military leader of the Islamic Group in 21 Egypt. He hoped for a fatal attack. He had big surprises, and 22 he helped carry out the Luxor massacre and the murder of 62 23 people. Sattar knew it, he knew it then, and when he knew it, 24 he agreed to tell Atia to go by the fatwah, and he gives Atia 25 the fatwah. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12025 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 But wait. Maybe Mr. Paul would say now, okay, Atia, 2 he didn't just want to travel. Atia wanted to kill. I give 3 up. I agree with Mr. Stern who in his summation said: "Atia 4 is a member of the Islamic Group who apparently wants to kill 5 people if he can." Maybe Mr. Paul would say, well, Atia, he 6 wasn't able to kill anyone. He wanted to, but he couldn't do 7 it because he argued to you that it is obvious, his word, from 8 these calls that the Islamic Group was not a group with the 9 power to do anything. 10 This is a distraction. Because the question for you 11 is whether Sattar intended people to die and whether Sattar 12 thought Atia was capable. But come on. The evidence proves 13 that Sattar and Taha knew Atia could kill and they intended for 14 Atia to kill. And the evidence shows that Salah Hashim and 15 Mustafa Hamza thought Atia could kill and Sattar through that. 16 And your common sense tells you that Atia could kill because 17 unfortunately it is not too hard. Your common sense tells you 18 that Atia had the power and the ability to kill. 19 Unfortunately, it just doesn't take that much to kill 20 someone. Sattar told you that he knew about Luxor, and you 21 know that seven to ten people with guns carried out the Luxor 22 massacre and killed 62 people. How many people appear in these 23 transcripts in the Atia cell? Well, at least nine: Atia, 24 Hani, who is also Fawzi -- Atia, Hani, Ibrahim, Thabit, Ismail, 25 Ahmad Sharif, Muntasir -- that's not Muntasir al-Zayyat -- and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12026 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 an unidentified male. 2 Contrary to what Mr. Tigar suggested to you, that 3 Ekkehart Hassels-Weiler provided the only evidence in the case 4 of weapons being in Egypt, Sattar told you on the stand on page 5 10863, he knew Atia has weapons. And Sattar told -- and he 6 said on cross-examination that he told Front Line in an 7 interview that he had that he knew, he knew that four or five 8 people were able to carry out the first world Trade center 9 bombing and that two people carried out the Oklahoma City 10 bombing. And you know that it only takes one suicide bomber, 11 or one gunman to kill someone. 12 Sattar sent his fatwah to the Atia cell and the whole 13 world, and it just takes one person to kill someone. Just one, 14 one gun, one bomb. Atia, was he capable? Atia himself, who 15 would know better than Mr. Paul, disagrees with Mr. Paul. 16 Because he told you in Exhibit 1170X that he was ready and able 17 to kill when he tells Sattar and Taha that he carried out the 18 Luxor massacre and other attacks, and he wants to commit a 19 fatal attack. 20 1192X, he says it here, too, October 11, 2000. Atia 21 tells you and Sattar that he is ready to kill. Pages 13 and 22 14. Atia: Let me tell you something. Sattar: Yes. Atia: 23 God willing, we will have very big surprises. They will 24 terminate all these things. What does this mean? Atia is 25 ready to say on Sattar's line: I am ready to kill. He has big SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12027 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 surprises, big surprises from the man who wants to carry out a 2 fatal attack and who carried out the massacre in Tema, in 3 Manfaloot, and other places. He has big surprises. 4 What does Sattar say? Not get out of my life and off 5 of my phone. I want nothing to do with you. He says, page 14: 6 Listen, for your information, my line is not safe, so be -- 7 Sattar cuts Atia off because his phone, he thinks, isn't safe. 8 Sattar does not need Atia to go all the way and say, I am going 9 to kill people tomorrow because Sattar knows what Atia means. 10 He means it is time for a fatal attack. It is time to end the 11 ceasefire. It is time to capitalize on the withdrawal of 12 support from the ceasefire and the recruitment of Atia. It is 13 time to kill. 14 Sattar claims now, I was just a link. That's not even 15 true because Sattar was Taha's partner in trying to end the 16 ceasefire and writing the fatwah, in recruiting Atia, and 17 getting the fatwah to Atia, telling him -- agreeing to tell him 18 go by it and not follow the ceasefire, as I just went through. 19 But let's talk about it for a second anyway, just a link. Let 20 me get one thing straight here right away. Sattar is not 21 charged with being the member of a group. That's not the 22 charge here. And it doesn't matter one way or the other if he 23 was. This is not a case about Sattar being a member of the 24 Islamic Group. It doesn't matter. Because he is charged with 25 a conspiracy to murder and solicitation to kill. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12028 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 And the conspiracy to murder is not the Islamic Group. 2 It is a group of people, Taha, Sattar, Atia, Abdel Rahman, and 3 they are members of the Islamic Group, some of them, or 4 associate of the Islamic Group. But it doesn't matter because, 5 in fact, they are operating at odds with the leaders of the 6 Islamic Group, or some of them, Salah Hashim and Mustafa Hamza. 7 He is not charged of being a member of any group and it doesn't 8 matter if he is or he isn't. He is a member of a conspiracy to 9 kill. 10 In fact, some of the leaders of the Islamic Group 11 deplored what Sattar was doing, like Hamza and Hashim. The 12 issue for you is whether Sattar is a member of a conspiracy to 13 kill and whether he solicited killing. And Judge Koeltl will 14 instruct you that a defendant's guilt is not measured by the 15 extent of his participation. Some people play major roles, 16 some people play minor roles. Coconspirators don't always have 17 to play equal roles. And a single act can be sufficient to 18 make the defendant guilty of a conspiracy because everyone has 19 a role in a conspiracy. 20 Like take a bank robbery. Somebody drives the car, 21 somebody makes the plan, somebody distracts the guards, someone 22 sticks up the teller. And in a conspiracy to kill, people have 23 roles, too. Some people make the decisions and the plans. 24 Other people relay them. Other people get equipment or 25 identification. And other people carry out the attack. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12029 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 here Sattar's job is to get the fatwah, to get the withdrawal 2 of support for the ceasefire, to relay communications, to get 3 Taha in touch with Atia so he can recruit him, and somebody 4 else. Atia or someone else is going to carry it out. 5 Now, Mr. Paul says Sattar, he didn't take sides. He 6 would have helped either side if he had the chance and he was 7 asked. Sattar knew that the pro ceasefire side of the Islamic 8 Group wanted Taha and Atia apart. But Sattar put them together 9 anyways. Who is the pro ceasefire side of the Islamic Group? 10 That's Mustafa Hamza and Salah Hashim. 11 And what does the pro ceasefire side of the Islamic 12 Group say and do? 1072X on April 18 of 2000, pages 27 and 28: 13 Hamza tells Hani on a call that Sattar connected and is on: If 14 someone other than me or Salah Hashim tells you to do 15 something, say no. Page 27, Hamza says: For example, he would 16 tell you, by God, we want -- tell your man, that's reference to 17 Atia, that we want to do something or so. That is considered 18 nothing and it has no value. It is considered of substance 19 only if it is coming from me directly, Hamza, or through Abu 20 Nadhara, who is Salah Hashim. Other than that, don't accept 21 any word from anyone, no matter who he is. Any other person's 22 words are not acceptable. 23 Page 28: Hamza terms Atia: Anyone from outside the 24 specified circle, the circle he just defined, him, and Hashim, 25 no matter who he is, and my words are clear, I'm saying anyone SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12030 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 who talks to Atia from outside the circle, no matter who he 2 is -- Taha -- he is not to listen to him. Do you understand? 3 For example, someone comes to you and says: I am going to send 4 you money and you could do things and so you could go kill 5 someone. Tell him, we don't take orders from anyone. Tell 6 him, you listen to me, Hamza and Hashim, and we are pro 7 ceasefire. Don't listen to Taha. Don't listen to Taha and 8 Sattar when they tell you to commit murder. 9 1075X on April 24, of 2000. Hamza tells Atia: On a 10 part of a call that Sattar in 1083X later relays to Taha, so he 11 clearly heard this: Don't follow the deviant, Abu Yasir. He 12 represents some instability and is the only leader who is 13 against the ceasefire. Page 11: All the people agreed on a 14 general policy," Hamza tells Atia. You should not follow the 15 deviant, whoever he is. Page 38 Hamza tells Atia: Of course, 16 you understand through Salah Hashim that Sheikh Abu Yasir -- 17 that's Taha -- represents some instability until now. He is 18 the only one among us all that is not in agreement with the 19 rest of the people regarding direction, regarding the policy of 20 this period. That call is on April 24 of 2000, before all of 21 the evidence that I just went through regarding Taha and 22 Sattar's recruitment of Atia. Sattar knew that the pro 23 ceasefire side of the Islamic Group said no, don't listen to 24 Taha. Don't talk to Taha. 25 But Sattar wanted Atia and Taha to get together and he SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12031 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 wanted Atia on his side with Taha so Sattar ignored what he 2 heard and what he knew. And he ignored what Salah Hashim and 3 Mustafa Hamza said. This is not the mark of a man who did not 4 take sides or who wants to work on either side. Because Sattar 5 is on Taha's side, his partner's side. 6 Now, Mr. Paul argues, based on a call on April 1 of 7 2000, 1068X, that Mustafa Hamza, he didn't know who Atia was. 8 This argument is absurd. And it ignores all of the evidence. 9 This is the very first call that has a member of the Atia cell 10 talking to Hamza. And remember, this is a splintered terrorist 11 group with its members scattered around the world, on the run 12 from the Egypt government. Hamza is hiding outside of Egypt, 13 Taha is hiding in Afghanistan, and Atia is inside Egypt. And 14 Atia and Hamza probably have not spoken to each other for years 15 or seen each other. 16 You learned in this case how hard it is for these 17 people to communicate with each other. It is not like a 18 corporation where you can pick up the phone and call the board 19 of directors or walk down the hall and have a meeting in a 20 conference room. 21 So Hamza checks Atia out first before he talks to him 22 and Sattar agreed with that on the witness stand. And by April 23 24, the calls I just went through, when Mustafa Hamza is 24 telling Atia, do not listen to Taha, just listen to me, it sure 25 sounds like Hamza knows exactly what Atia is all about and who SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12032 51AMSAT4 Rebuttal 1 he is. Because he is adamant that Atia does not listen to Taha 2 when Taha tells him to kill. And Sattar hears it, but he makes 3 sure that they do. And courtesy of Sattar, the worst fears of 4 the pro ceasefire side of Mustafa Hamza and the Islamic Group 5 are realized. Thanks to Sattar, Taha hooks up with Atia and 6 Sattar and Taha tell Atia, don't follow the ceasefire. You're 7 not bound by it. Go by the fatwah. 8 Your Honor, may we take a break? 9 THE COURT: Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take 10 ten minutes. Please, please remember my continuing 11 instructions. Don't talk about this case at all. Always 12 remember to keep an open mind until I have finally instructed 13 you on the law. 14 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 15 jury room. 16 (Jury not present) 17 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, may I be heard briefly? 18 In the portion of his rebuttal summation devoted to 19 Mr. Sattar, which is, since it was devoted to Mr. Sattar, 20 difficult not to stand up because I didn't want to underscore 21 it, counsel said in discussing -- he began discussing Osama Bin 22 Laden and then he said: "Just like crazy sick people can come 23 here and attack America. There is only one crazy sick people 24 attacking America that that could possibly refer to, and those 25 are the events of September 11. And then he said that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12033 51AMSAT4 1 Mr. Sattar knows all that, brought Osama Bin Laden back, quoted 2 your Honor's instruction but said that Mr. Sattar "knew what a 3 monster he was." And knew what a monster he was could not 4 conceivably have been simply a reference to the two fatwahs 5 that are in evidence. That is a reference to something that 6 has not been proved here. 7 I concede Osama Bin Laden is a monster. He planned 8 the 9/11 attacks. For very good reasons, there has been no 9 evidence in this case that Osama Bin Laden is that kind of a 10 monster. I submit that the argument was improper. I don't 11 have the right to respond to it. 12 And given that it was made, I renew our motion for a 13 mistrial and a severance on behalf of Ms. Stewart. There is 14 simply no way that I can answer it at this point. The argument 15 began with a quotation, a very selective one, about the Atia 16 evidence in which counsel invited the jury to regard as 17 relevant evidence that would only be relevant conditionally, 18 that is, if they found that Ms. Stewart knew. As to that, I 19 decided that the jury will have your Honor's instruction, that 20 the weight, if any, of the evidence is for the jury. But 21 that's the reason that I have this concern, is that these were 22 a series of propositions all linked together in what I submit 23 was a way that was prejudicial to Ms. Stewart. 24 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I think I got all those 25 points. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12034 51AMSAT4 1 The first, with respect to people attacking the United 2 States, I actually wasn't even thinking of Osama Bin Laden. 3 There is evidence in the case that Abdel Rahman was convicted 4 and the defendants knew and Sattar certainly knew that Abdel 5 Rahman was convicted of a conspiracy to wage a war of urban 6 terrorism in New York City and that is America and that's what 7 I was thinking of. So it wasn't a reference to Osama Bin 8 Laden. I think I was very clear to say that Osama Bin Laden is 9 not a coconspirator and very clear that there is no guilt by 10 association because of Osama Bin Laden and I took great pains 11 to say that. 12 Secondly, with respect to Osama Bin Laden being a 13 monster, there is sufficient evidence in the case to -- from 14 which to infer that Sattar believed and knew he was. He was 15 charged with bombing the embassies in Africa and issuing two 16 fatwahs that were quite extreme. 17 Thirdly, with respect to the evidence admissible with 18 respect to Ms. Stewart, I was very careful and frankly barely 19 even argued any connection between she and the Atia calls, only 20 that it was an example on various occasions of the withdrawal 21 of support being used to recruit Atia. And I accurately stated 22 what the Court said, was very careful about what I said, was 23 very limited in what I said. In contrast to what Mr. Tigar 24 said, that I was flat out wrong about the use of the evidence, 25 I think that that -- that what I was trying to do was rebut -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12035 51AMSAT4 1 maybe it was an innocent misstatement. It was incorrect. And 2 so the jury is able to consider that evidence and the purposes 3 that I stated very specifically and very deliberately. 4 MR. PAUL: Your Honor, may I make a comment or couple 5 of comments. First of all, as was brought out in my summation, 6 and again I reiterate, this case is not about Osama Bin Laden. 7 And your Honor has instructed the jury with regard to that. 8 But my concern is, when Mr. Barkow argues and brings 9 in Osama Bin Laden and dovetails it with the embassy bombing 10 and also makes a reference, improper inference, I would suggest 11 where he puts on a highlight on the screen, specifically 12 permission to carry arms taken off of Mr. Sattar's internet or 13 computer, that is a quote from a Quranic verse. To suggest 14 that that is somehow tied into what Mr. Sattar believed or 15 suggested otherwise I think is an improper inference without 16 explaining that to the jury. 17 That, coupled with Mr. Barkow's comments, I would join 18 in Mr. Tigar's application. 19 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, may I just add one thing. 20 Because counsel justified his position -- I know the Court is 21 about ready to rule -- by saying that Mr. Sattar had the 22 indictment so, therefore, he knew about the embassy bombing. 23 If nothing else happens, this is so wrong that I respectfully 24 suggest he couldn't possibly believe that. An indictment is 25 not evidence of anything. The fact that you have an indictment SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12036 51AMSAT4 1 can't be evidence of anything. And to suggest otherwise, that 2 if you have an indictment you must know that the guy is a 3 monster is clearly improper. 4 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I was very deliberate. I 5 said that Osama Bin Laden was charged and that is what the 6 indictment says. And I used it as evidence of knowledge, where 7 that's how it was admitted. I did not say and certainly did 8 not intend to say that the Osama Bin Laden bombed the embassy. 9 I said that Mr. Sattar had a copy of the indictment and knew he 10 was charged. 11 THE COURT: The application for a mistrial is denied. 12 The application for a severance is denied. Government counsel 13 repeated my instructions about Osama Bin Laden not being a 14 coconspirator. I've gone further. I've said, you know, none 15 of the defendants are accused of having conspired with Osama 16 Bin Laden. There is evidence in the case about Osama Bin Laden 17 and it has been addressed in the various summations, and I did 18 not take the references to be a reference to 9/11. Now, I 19 am -- and over time I have given instructions numerous times 20 about Osama Bin Laden whenever I have been asked to do that, 21 including numerous points in the trial. 22 The only question in my mind is whether to give an 23 additional instruction, which I've told the jury before and 24 they will certainly recall, that this case has nothing to do 25 with 9/11, which is an additional instruction to the one that I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12037 51AMSAT4 1 have given with respect to Osama Bin Laden, that he is not 2 alleged to be a coconspirator in the case. None of the 3 defendants are alleged to have conspired with Osama Bin Laden. 4 And, as I say, on various occasions I have told the jury, this 5 case has nothing to do with 9/11. But I did not take what the 6 government said to be a reference to 9/11. But if anyone 7 thinks that it was, or wants me to instruct the jurors, it is 8 something which I have told the jurors before and I am 9 perfectly prepared to do it again. 10 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I actually intend to rebut 11 some of the arguments about 9/11 and to embrace the fact that 12 the case is not about 9/11 in a careful way and say, again, 13 that this case is not about 9/11, because it is not. I was 14 very careful in what I said about Osama Bin Laden. And I would 15 ask the Court not to give that instruction now because, as was 16 implied directly by Mr. Tigar in his closing, and difficult not 17 object to this, but the discussion in his closing about how 18 when the jury goes to the back and during a break what's 19 happening is, there is discussion about legal issues, there is 20 no evidence of that. And the argument was made, I did not 21 object. But -- 22 THE COURT: That was not the argument that was being 23 made. The argument that was being made is that in the course 24 of jury deliberations, when you go back and think about the 25 case you can approach it in various ways, you may look at -- I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12038 51AMSAT4 1 didn't hear a reference to 9/11. I really didn't in any of the 2 defense summations, unlike some other references that I did 3 hear. But I didn't hear a reference to 9/11. And I don't 4 believe that it is a fair argument to respond to 9/11. 5 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, what I'm saying is, about 6 9/11, Mr. Sattar ended his direct examination -- his summation, 7 his summation by playing the call about Joanne. That's what I 8 am going to talk about, not the events of 9/11. That's how 9 Mr. Paul ended his summation. And I was going to rebut that. 10 And when I do that, I am going to embrace the fact that the 11 case is not about 9/11, which it is not. And my point is, if 12 the Court is to say now the curative instruction, even though 13 what I submit to the Court is what I did was not wrong, it will 14 imply to the jury that I did something wrong. 15 And the reason that it may imply is that because of 16 what I thought was an argument by Mr. Tigar in a different 17 context about what happens when the jury is in the back and 18 legal arguments. Even if I misunderstood that argument, 19 nonetheless, I am going to talk about it and I am going to say 20 again about 9/11. And I would ask that I be allowed to say it 21 because I have not done anything wrong about 9/11 yet. And for 22 the Court to give an instruction when the jury comes back out 23 suggests that I did. 24 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, lawyers can think about 25 whether or not the Court's instructions to the jury are SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12039 51AMSAT4 1 criticisms. Your Honor started this morning by saying, if the 2 lawyers state something different than the evidence here, it is 3 your recollection that controls and so on. I did not interpret 4 the Court telling the jury a perfectly unobjectionable 5 principle of law as being directed at me. 6 We would ask that an instruction be given because it 7 is important. It has been done before. And I understand how 8 your Honor took it. But to say, just like crazy sick people 9 can't come here and attack America, that did not, it seems to 10 me -- that didn't seem to me about Sheikh Abdel Rahman's trial 11 because that wasn't about a crazy sick person coming in and 12 attacking America. It was a person in bad health conspiring 13 with others. Because what I think is at least an ambiguity 14 that is there, we request that the instruction be given. 15 Counsel is free to argue what they want. We ask for the 16 instruction. 17 THE COURT: I've been very careful to continue to give 18 instructions throughout summations. I will not say that 19 something was done improperly. I will simply remind the jury, 20 as I have done on numerous occasions, that just remember, 21 nothing the lawyers say is evidence and you will take my 22 instructions on the law. And I also remind you that this case 23 is not about 9/11. And none of the defendants is accused -- as 24 the government said, none of the defendants is accused of 25 having conspired with Osama Bin Laden. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12040 51AMSAT4 1 It is a fair instruction. 2 We will take five minutes. 3 (Pages 12041-12046 SEALED by order of the Court) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12053 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 (Pages 12047-12052 SEALED by order of the Court) 2 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Let's bring in the 3 jury. 4 (Jury present) 5 THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 6 THE JURY: Good afternoon. 7 THE COURT: Good to see you all, as always. 8 Ladies and gentlemen, as we are going to continue with 9 the final summation, as I have repeatedly reminded you 10 throughout the course of all of the summations, nothing that 11 the lawyers say is evidence and I will instruct you on the law 12 when the, when I give you my final instructions after all of 13 the summations are complete. 14 I also remind you that this case is not about 9/11 and 15 none of the defendants is charged with having conspired with 16 Osama Bin Laden. 17 Mr. Barkow, you may proceed. 18 MR. BARKOW: Thank you, your Honor. 19 I would like to return to talking about Mr. Sattar. 20 Now, Mr. Paul argued to you that Mr. Sattar did not believe 21 that the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire that he and 22 Lynne Stewart and Mohammed Yousry issued was a pro-violence 23 statement. And he relied to tell you that on an interview that 24 Sattar had on the phone with Al-Jazeera on June 23rd of 2000, 25 that's Ahmed Sattar, AS Exhibit 12. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12054 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Now, is Mr. Paul suggesting to you that Sattar is not 2 guilty because he didn't get on the phone and say, hello, 3 Mr. Al-Jazeera reporter, I want to tell you that -- and please 4 broadcast it to the world, my voice, my name -- please 5 broadcast to the world so the governments around the world, 6 including my government can hear that what I just did was relay 7 a message from a terrorist calling for murder. 8 Of course he's not going to say that to Al-Jazeera. 9 The Al-Jazeera call proves nothing. Because contrast the 10 Al-Jazeera call with what Sattar was telling members of the 11 Islamic Group on the phone at the same time on his private line 12 at home and not to the media and telling to his co-conspirators 13 about what the message that he was relaying actually said. 14 What did he say the message actually was and that he knew it 15 actually was? 16 Government Exhibit 1093X, page 4, a call on May 28th 17 of 2000, Sattar tells Mustafa Hamza that the message he is 18 relaying is: And, if circumstances allow to... you know allow 19 what, no objection. 20 Government Exhibit 1094X, May 29th, 2000, Sattar tells 21 Taha that the message reads: And if circumstances permit to do 22 work, there is no objection. And Mr. Dember argued to you and 23 told you that work in this context meant a terrorist attack and 24 Mr. Paul did not challenge that. 25 Government Exhibit 1116X, pages 10 and 11, it's a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12055 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 two-page exhibit so when it is on the screen it will look a 2 little funny because we're breaking it up from the bottom of 3 one page to the top of another; Sattar told Al-Sirri that the 4 message was if circumstances allow the doing of an act, no 5 objection. 6 That's what the message was and that's what Sattar 7 knew the message was and that's what he was telling people the 8 message was. If circumstances allow the doing of an act of 9 terrorism, of killing, of violence, no objection. Kill people 10 if you can. 11 Do you think that Sattar was being truthful when he 12 says to Al-Jazeera that has didn't know that this was a message 13 calling for the resumption of violence? Do you think that 14 Mr. Paul is right that Sattar's statements to Al-Jazeera are 15 more reliable than what Sattar was actually saying the message 16 was at the time to his co-conspirators and to members of the 17 Islamic Group? Of course not. Sattar relayed the message as 18 it was: If you can kill, kill. If you can commit a terrorist 19 act -- something that is not challenged or was not challenged 20 in summation by Mr. Paul, if you can commit a terrorist act, do 21 it. 22 He knew that the message called for violence and to 23 suggest otherwise is just wrong. 24 Now, Mr. Paul also argued that Sattar believed and 25 that Abdel Rahman wasn't that influential in the Islamic Group SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12056 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 because he said, for example, the Luxor attack occurred after 2 the cease-fire was announced. Let me say a bit about the power 3 of Omar Abdel Rahman and what Ahmed Sattar thought about that 4 and I'm going to get to the other defendants' knowledge about 5 that later when I talk about them. 6 Mr. Sattar seems to disagree with Mr. Paul because 7 what you are here to evaluate is what Mr. Sattar thought and 8 what he intended and his state of mind, and Sattar believed 9 that the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire was a support 10 for violence and he believed and he knew that Abdel Rahman's 11 support of the cease-fire as an initial matter made it happen. 12 It wouldn't have happened without him so he knew that if he 13 withdrew his support -- that is, Abdel Rahman -- that the 14 cease-fire might collapse. It couldn't exist without him. So, 15 when he withdrew his support it would collapse. 16 These are Ahmed Sattar's words, transcript 10186, 17 quote, well, as what I said or what I know there is, there was 18 a conflict with within the Islamic Group between two groups, 19 two factions. There was the Sheikh right there. He is the 20 spiritual leader of the Islamic Group. Everybody wants to pull 21 this man to his side. 22 Government Exhibit 1015X, a call on April 27th of 23 1999, Sattar says, without Abdel Rahman's support there 24 wouldn't have been a cease-fire. Quote, on page 12, Abdel 25 Rahman, quote, contributed very much to the cease-fire by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12057 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 calling for it. By endorsing it without, I believe, without 2 him, I believe without him it was not going to happen. 3 Government Exhibit 1107X, June 13th of 2000, Sattar 4 says again that the cease-fire started in June of 1997 but 5 picked up steam only after Abdel Rahman came out in favor of 6 it, pages 6 and 7, quote, this is Sattar to Al-Shafi'i, quote, 7 the most real drive to support the initiative happened after 8 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman issued a statement here supporting it. 9 Sattar believed that Abdel Rahman was indispensable to 10 making the cease-fire happen the first time, it was the only 11 reason why it worked. And so, when Abdel Rahman withdrew his 12 support for the cease-fire, Sattar clearly believed that it 13 would end a cease-fire. 14 What about Taha, Sattar's partner in this conspiracy? 15 Taha also believed that Abdel Rahman had the power to determine 16 whether the cease-fire was in effect or not. 17 Government Exhibit 1002X on December 12th of 1998 on 18 page 17, Taha says, quote, when I was out we agreed that all 19 they issue is okay if I approve it. If I don't approve it, it 20 is to be presented to Sheikh Omar. If he approves my point of 21 view, it passes. If he approves theirs, it passes. This is 22 because Sheikh Omar is the one who says and decides, not 23 because it is their viewpoint. The command, homage, obedience 24 and ruling are for Sheikh Omar, not them. 25 1178X, on September 26 of 2000 Taha says, Abdel Rahman SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12058 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 is the one to go by. He doesn't just have one vote. Pages 5 2 and 6 Taha says, quote, the Sheikh should be given precedence 3 and presented as the legitimate emir. In the past we always 4 considered this man's opinion the one to go by even if only one 5 person from the old council agreed with him. 6 Abdel Rahman is the man to go by. He is the man that 7 people listen to. Taha knew it and believed it and so did 8 Sattar. 9 What about Abdel Rahman? He believed he had the power 10 to tell the Islamic Group what to do too even when he was in 11 prison. 12 In Government Exhibit 1731T there is a discussion 13 about whether Abdel Rahman should tell the Islamic Group to 14 take Taha back on the shura counsel. Mr. Tigar talked about 15 this in his summation twice. Page 1731T at page 18, quote, 16 this is Abdel Rahman, no, no, no. I cannot. 17 He is saying he can't tell the Islamic Group to take 18 Taha back on the shura council. I can't -- they're free to do 19 what they want, I can't. It is their business. If I come out 20 and say that they will be forced to take him back and I don't 21 want it this way. 22 Abdel Rahman says, if I tell them to do something they 23 will be forced to do what I say and I don't want to do that 24 because it's their decision. Because Abdel Rahman says so 25 members of the Islamic Group will do it. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12059 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 The three core members of this conspiracy to kill, 2 along with the fourth, Atia, believe and they all agree, Abdel 3 Rahman has the power to say what happens -- whether you fire, 4 whether you kill, or whether you cease-fire. That's what they 5 believed and that's their intent. 6 Now, Mr. Paul said something about the SAMs. He made 7 an argument about whether Sattar was guilty of the conspiracy 8 to defraud. I'm not going to go back through all the evidence 9 that Sattar knew about the SAMs, I'm just going to refer you 10 back to what Mr. Dember said and what Mr. Morvillo did on 11 cross-examination. But Mr. Paul's argument was that Sattar was 12 not sufficiently interested in the SAMs to read them and pay 13 attention to them. 14 Come on. What's really the truth here? Sattar was so 15 interested in these SAMs, in the rules that cut him off from a 16 man he described as his father, his brother, his mentor, his 17 imam, his preacher, his friend and his associate, so concerned 18 about them that he kept a copy of them laying on his dresser in 19 his bedroom. That's Government Exhibit 2061. That's where it 20 was when the FBI found it, laying on the dresser in his bedroom 21 and another copy laying underneath his bed in his bedroom, 22 that's Government Exhibit 2037, that one had a signed copy of 23 the affirmation by Lynne Stewart attached to it. 24 MR. PAUL: Objection. The way the evidence was 25 recovered. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12060 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 MR. BARKOW: I'm going to say, your Honor, what piece 2 of evidence shows that. 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 Ladies and gentlemen, your recollection of the 5 evidence governs any, if you have any questions about the 6 evidence, as I will tell you, you have the right to ask for any 7 of the exhibits or any of the testimony to be provided to you 8 and, as always, it is your recollection of the evidence that 9 governs. 10 Okay. 11 MR. BARKOW: If you want to check that take a look at 12 Government Exhibit 2085 which is a stipulation signed by the 13 government and all the parties, including Mr. Sattar and 14 including his lawyers, and it tells you where each and every 15 piece of evidence that was found in the search of Sattar's home 16 was found and it tells you that Government Exhibit 2061 was 17 found on top of a dresser in a bedroom. And if you look at the 18 map of the Sattar home it's the master bedroom. And it tells 19 you that Government Exhibit 2037 was found underneath the bed 20 in the same bedroom. That's what Government Exhibit 2085, the 21 stipulation shows, and that they agreed to. 22 Sattar didn't know exactly what the SAMs meant and 23 exactly what they said? Give me a break. 24 And what it shows is Sattar is guilty of a conspiracy 25 to defraud. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12061 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Now, Mr. Paul started his summation, actually his 2 opening statement as well, talking about a fear that he had 3 that you wouldn't abide by your oaths to decide this case 4 fairly and impartially. He said that he feared that you would 5 be swayed by emotion stemming from 9/11 and from worldwide 6 terrorism. 7 So how did he end his summation? Doing exactly what 8 he claimed he feared, trying to explain evidence that might 9 lead you to decide the case based on your emotions about 9/11 10 rather than evidence relating to the charges in this case as 11 your oath requires you to do. 12 Mr. Paul asked you to draw inferences from evidence, 13 evidence that the defendant Sattar had introduced of two calls 14 after 9/11 that have absolutely nothing to do with the charges 15 in this case. This is a case, as Judge Koeltl just instructed 16 you, that is not about September 11th; and the defendants are 17 not involved or charged to be involved in any conspiracy with 18 Osama Bin Laden; and the events of September 11th have nothing 19 to do with this case, nor do Sattar's reaction to September 20 11th. 21 The government doesn't have, share Mr. Paul's fears 22 that you are not going to decide this case based on the 23 evidence. We know that you will decide this case as you took 24 an oath to do, to decide the case based on the evidence. And 25 the evidence shows you conclusively that Ahmed Sattar issued a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12062 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Fatwah to kill Jewish people in the name of Abdel Rahman along 2 with Taha and gave it to Atia and agreed to tell Atia to go by 3 it. 4 Now, 9/11 is certainly one of the worst tragedies ever 5 to befall the United States and it devastated all Americans, 6 especially someone in New York. And no one who was here will 7 ever forget that. But, Sattar wants you to think that he is 8 not guilty because he spoke to a co-worker and was sad about 9 9/11. We are sure that he was sad about 9/11. It would be 10 shocking if he weren't. But these two calls mean nothing to 11 this case because the government isn't making the claim that 12 all terrorists share the goals of all other terrorists. 13 Just as one murderer might not necessarily share the 14 goals of another, and just like someone who murders someone 15 might be offended or even saddened by the crimes of another 16 murderer, the murder of a friend or a co-worker or a neighbor, 17 terrorists, like other criminals, act for many reasons. And 18 that Sattar didn't share the goals and the same aims of the 19 9/11 terrorists or found the consequences of their actions 20 unsettling or horrible is beside the point, because he had 21 goals of his own and he cried no tears for the Jewish people he 22 wanted killed and that he targeted in his Fatwah. 23 Sattar believes in violence when it furthers his goals 24 and he doesn't support it when it doesn't further his goals or 25 when it strikes too close to home for him. He targeted Jewish SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12063 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 people in October of 2000 and he wanted them to die. And he 2 targeted the advocates of Jews in the Middle East in October 3 2000 when there was absolutely no risk to him on Staten Island 4 but only to the Jews and the advocates of Jews vacationing in 5 Egypt or walking down the street in Tel Aviv. 6 Sattar's calls about 9/11 are irrelevant to this case. 7 It doesn't really matter that Sattar clearly was not honest 8 with Joanne, his co-worker, about his real life in those calls 9 because those calls don't have anything to do with the case. 10 But, let me make a few points about them. 11 Sattar lives one life at work, clearly, and another 12 life in the dark of night in his home on his phone. And just 13 like Sattar tried to create one image here for you of himself, 14 that's in stark contrast of the life you know he led and that 15 you learned about from the evidence in the case and the calls 16 that he made and the Fatwah that he issued. 17 Sattar wasn't honest with Joanne, his co-worker. 18 Ahmed Sattar Exhibit 21T, page 7, do you remember Joanne 19 saying, you know, I told people at work, Ahmed showed me the 20 scars from the bullets from the war with Israel. 21 Sattar showed Joanne bullet wounds from the war with 22 Israel? Do you think maybe he did that to justify anti-Semitic 23 comments he made at work? 24 Well, compare what Sattar told Joanne about his bullet 25 wounds. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12064 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 MR. PAUL: Objection to the last comment. 2 THE COURT: Sustained, stricken. 3 The jury is instructed to disregard. 4 MR. BARKOW: Compare what Sattar said to Joanne that 5 caused her to believe that he had bullet wounds from the war 6 with Israel to what he told you in response to a question about 7 Mr. Fallick on the transcript at page 9999: 8 "Q Did you ever engage in actual combat?" 9 Asking about his service in the military in Egypt 10 "A No." 11 Sattar didn't reveal himself to Joanne like he has 12 revealed himself to you here. She doesn't know Sattar like you 13 do. When he talked to her at work or on the phone do you think 14 he ever said to her, hey, Joanne, do you know I issued a Fatwah 15 to Atia in the name of Abdel Rahman mandating the killing of 16 Jews everywhere? Of course not. 17 Do you think he said to her, you know, I worked for 18 two years to get Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of support for a 19 cease-fire. Of course not. 20 Do you think he said to her, you know, I'm on the 21 phone all the time with this guy Taha and he issued Fatwahs 22 with Osama Bin Laden. We wrote the Fatwah together, Taha and 23 I, we distributed it to the world and we gave it to Atia and we 24 told him to go by it. Of course not. 25 Did he tell her, I know about this violent terrorist SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12065 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 stuff, the guy I gave the Fatwah to, Atia, I knew that he had 2 planned the Luxor massacre that resulted in the deaths of 62 3 people. Of course not. 4 Did he tell her, I send money to the people who bombed 5 the World Trade Center the first time. Of course not. 6 These 9/11 calls mean nothing to this case. They're 7 there to distract you, let's stay focused on the evidence. 8 Now, all of the defendants have said to you at one 9 time or another no one died. Let me off because no one died. 10 Mr. Paul said it as far back as his opening. Mr. Stern said in 11 his summation, quote, no one died after Luxor. Ms. Stewart 12 testified no one died. That was page 8411 and 8412. 13 This argument is offensive. What are they saying? 14 Let me off because the conspiracy to kill failed. Let me off 15 because the solicitation to kill did not succeed. Let me off 16 because Sattar and Atia and Taha did not succeed in killing 17 Jewish people. Let me off because the withdrawal of support 18 did not succeed in leading to death. Let me off because Atia 19 died before he could act and go by the Fatwah and capitalize on 20 the withdrawal of support for the cease-fire. 21 Thank God there is no evidence that no one died 22 because if the conspiracy to kill had succeeded and the 23 solicitation to kill had succeeded, the real world would have 24 been a much worse place. There would have been more people 25 like Ekkehart Hassels-Weiler who would have had to hide behind SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12066 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 a column with their friends and their family to escape 2 slaughter and death. 3 But this case would not be different at all. Someone 4 dying is not an element to any of the charges in this case. 5 Judge Koeltl will tell you those elements and the death of 6 someone is not an element to any of them. 7 The government does not have to prove that anyone 8 died. Why not? As Judge Koeltl will tell you, Congress has 9 made conspiracy a crime standing alone as a separate crime even 10 if it is not successful because group action is more dangerous 11 than individual action. 12 And, similarly, solicitation is a crime because the 13 government needs to penalize those people who try but just 14 don't succeed. And you know and your common sense tells you 15 that the laws criminalizing actions that risk death, the 16 purpose of those laws is to protect public safety and prevent 17 death. 18 Just like firing a gun into a crowd or at someone and 19 missing is still a crime, and just like hiring a hit man who 20 fails is still a crime; conspiracy and solicitation are still 21 crimes even if those who conspire and solicit fail. 22 This is not a case, thank God, about people dying. 23 None of these defendants are charged with murder and the 24 government has never claimed to you that anyone actually died. 25 This case involves charges of conspiracy or agreement, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12067 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 solicitation, false statements, material support to a 2 conspiracy to kill and conspiracy to provide material support. 3 And none of those charges require proof that someone died. 4 But in the face of all of this, in the face of what 5 the law actually requires, these defendants are asking you, let 6 me off because the conspiracy in the solicitation failed. The 7 argument is offensive, it's scandalous, it's not backed by the 8 law and it should be rejected. 9 As I have just told you over my summation, Sattar 10 wanted people to die and that is all the government needs to 11 prove and that you need to find. 12 The defendants are right, there is no evidence that 13 anyone died but no thanks to these three people. They did 14 everything that they needed to do and could do to cause death 15 or the risk of death and they did nothing -- 16 MR. TIGAR: Objection, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, the purpose of 18 summation is to explain to you what the evidence shows or does 19 not show and it's your recollection of the evidence that 20 controls and I will instruct you on the law. 21 I remind you that it is the evidence or lack of 22 evidence that controls in the case and I will also explain to 23 you that you are to approach your duties coolly, calmly, 24 without emotion in light of all the evidence or lack of 25 evidence in the case and my instructions on the law. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12068 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 All right. 2 MR. BARKOW: As Judge Koeltl instructed you, you need 3 to decide this case based on the evidence and the law and the 4 law does not require any proof that anyone died. And thank God 5 that there is no evidence that anyone died despite what these 6 defendants did. 7 But ask yourselves, based on the evidence, why didn't 8 anyone die? Is it maybe because Atia was killed on October 9 19th of 2000, the specific person who Taha and Sattar were 10 sending out into the world to do their killing for them was 11 dead just days after Atia personally was told by Sattar about 12 the Fatwah on October 16th, and just after Taha and Sattar 13 agreed to tell Atia to go by it, the Atia threat is gone and 14 the person on the ground who is supposed to kill people is 15 himself dead. 16 Thank God that there is no evidence that anyone died 17 but when it comes to this case, that is besides the point. It 18 is not an element of any offense, the government doesn't have 19 to prove it, you don't have to find it and we have never said 20 that it happened. 21 And it is a distraction from the real issues on the 22 evidence and the law that you need to use and that Judge Koeltl 23 will give you to decide this case. And if you keep your focus 24 on the evidence and on the law, the evidence and the law will 25 show you that Ahmed Sattar is guilty as charged. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12069 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Now, let's talk about Mohammed Yousry. 2 Why is Mohammed Yousry here? Mr. Stern asked that 3 question at the start of his summation. Why is Mohammed Yousry 4 here? 5 Mohammed Yousry is here because he relayed a request 6 from Taha to Abdel Rahman asking Abdel Rahman to withdraw his 7 support for the cease-fire and to return to violence. 8 He is here because Mohammed Yousry carried Abdel 9 Rahman's message that Abdel Rahman withdrew his support for the 10 cease-fire, he gave it to Ahmed Sattar and to Lynne Stewart and 11 they distributed it to the world. And even though Mohammed 12 Yousry knew that what he was doing was unlawful, and even 13 though he knew that it violated the SAMs and defrauded the 14 United States, he did it anyway and it never would have 15 happened without him. 16 That is why Mohammed Yousry is here. 17 Government Exhibit 1707X at 29, if he finds out what 18 this is, then we're in trouble. Yeah, that's right. 19 In trouble. 20 Mohammed Yousry knew if the guards found out what he 21 was up to he was in trouble. He knew if the Bureau of Prisons 22 found out what he was doing he was in trouble. He knew if the 23 U.S. government found out what he was doing he was in trouble. 24 He knew that if anyone found out what he was doing he was in 25 trouble because Mohammed Yousry knew that what he was doing at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12070 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 the time he was doing it was wrong and was a crime. 2 What was Mohammed Yousry doing? You know what 3 Mohammed Yousry was doing -- along with Lynne Stewart and Ahmed 4 Sattar, Mohammed Yousry was relaying Taha's request to Abdel 5 Rahman asking for a return to violence for a withdrawal of 6 support for the cease-fire. And Mohammed Yousry, along with 7 Sattar and Lynne Stewart, was relaying Abdel Rahman's 8 withdrawal of support back out to the world. And Mohammed 9 Yousry knew that if he got caught doing that he would be in 10 trouble. And when he claims otherwise, he is lying to you. 11 Mohammed Yousry sat on that witness stand, under oath, 12 and he told you over and over that he didn't see or read the 13 SAMs until late 2000 or early 2001. He told you that. 14 And he told you that he didn't know what they 15 prohibited in May or June of 2000 when he relayed the message 16 from Taha to Abdel Rahman and Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of 17 support for the cease-fire back out to the world. 18 Why would he say that? Because he's smart enough to 19 know that if you know he did read the SAMs they so clearly 20 prohibit what he did that he is guilty. And he knows that if 21 you know that he knew what the SAMs prohibited, his reliance on 22 the attorneys defense is out the window and he is guilty. 23 Let me start with something that Mr. Dember argued but 24 that Mr. Stern completely avoided and said nothing about. 25 There is nothing to say about this. There is no defense to be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12071 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 mounted. There is no spin to be spun. There is no explanation 2 to be given or woven because this is a piece of evidence that 3 completely sinks Mohammed Yousry's defense and shows you that 4 he is guilty because he knew what the SAMs required and what 5 they prohibited and it proves to you that he is guilty. 6 In 1999, or at the latest January or February 2000, 7 Mohammed Yousry wrote this in his dissertation. He wrote it. 8 These are not notes of his research, these are full paragraphs 9 of his dissertation. This is his dissertation and he wrote all 10 of the words in it and he told you that he wrote it in 1999 or 11 January or February of 2000 at the latest. It's Mohammed 12 Yousry Exhibit 550LT-4, page 28, under a heading: Silencing 13 the Sheikh. 14 In March of 1997 the FBI and the Justice Department 15 jointly issued Special Administrative Measures forbidding the 16 Sheikh from speaking to anyone except his approved lawyers for 17 one hour a week and his first wife for 15 minutes per month, 18 the subject matter of such conversations also being restricted 19 to the legal and family matters respectively -- he is not even 20 allowed to ask about the weather in Egypt. Rahman is, quote, a 21 convicted criminal placed directly under the Special 22 Administrative Measures by the U.S. general attorney herself. 23 Do you think that Mohammed Yousry read the SAMs by the 24 time he wrote this in 1999 or January or February 2000? Of 25 course he did. It is impossible to write this, to write what SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12072 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 he wrote without knowing those SAMs intimately. And he wrote 2 this, Mohammed Yousry Exhibit 550LT-4, page 28 and 29, in 1999 3 or January/February 2000, as he told you he wrote it then: To 4 counter the attempt on the part of the American government to 5 silence him, the Sheikh and his lawyers worked out a plan. The 6 plan was to publicize his unfair treatment here and abroad. 7 Next he says, quote, soon after his lawyers began 8 publicizing Sheikh Omar's condition and views, the U.S. 9 government requested that all four of his lawyers and the only 10 authorized interpreter -- who you know is Yousry -- signed an 11 agreement not to disclose any part of their conversation with 12 the Sheikh to the media. 13 Those are his words. He wrote them in 1999 or January 14 or February of 2000. 15 Do you think that Mohammed Yousry knew that he and the 16 lawyers were not allowed to disclose communications by Abdel 17 Rahman to the media or, as he put it, any part of their 18 conversation with the Sheikh to the media? Of course he did 19 because he's lifting this that he wrote directly from the SAMs, 20 directly from the media provisions of the SAMs that were added 21 to those SAMs on May 11th of 1998. 22 And he wrote this, Mohammed Yousry 550LT-4. These are 23 exhibits that he put into evidence at page 29. This he wrote 24 in 1999 or January or February of 2000 at the latest: In 25 February of 1999 the U.S. lawyers found a way to circumvent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12073 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 some of the restrictions. 2 And then he goes on, quote, basically, the news of the 3 Sheikh was disseminated by the widely read Al-Hayat newspaper, 4 Al-Quds Al-Arabi and the mayor and major opposition papers and 5 Al-Nasseri and Al-Sha'b. 6 The U.S. lawyers found a way to circumvent some of the 7 restrictions. Do you think that Mohammed Yousry knew about the 8 conspiracy to circumvent the SAMs by late '99 or 9 January/February 2000 when he wrote these words? Of course he 10 did, because he wrote all about it in his dissertation. 11 He wrote these words, his words in 1999 or the first 12 two months in 2000 and the only way to write these words is if 13 he knew what he was writing about. And Mr. Stern completely 14 avoided this and Mr. Dember argued it at length. There is no 15 explanation and there is nothing that can be said to explain 16 this other than Mohammed Yousry knew what the SAMs prohibited 17 and he knew that the conspiracy to defraud the United States to 18 circumvent those SAMs existed and that the messages sent to the 19 media were a part of it and they violated the SAMs and they 20 defrauded the United States. 21 Now, what does all of this mean? It's obvious what it 22 means. It means that Mohammed Yousry lied to you when he 23 testified. He lied about the most important issue in the case 24 to him, whether he himself personally knew about the SAMs and 25 what they prohibited at the time he committed his crimes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12074 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 He did know and the evidence shows you that he knew. 2 He knew late '99, first two months of 2000, well before the May 3 2000 visit when he brought in a message from Taha and brought 4 out Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of support for the cease-fire. 5 He knew that the SAMs didn't allow communications with the 6 media and especially communications between a guy like Taha, 7 who he knew all about, and Abdel Rahman, who he knew all about. 8 He is an expert on the Islamic Group. 9 And what this tells you is it means that he is guilty 10 of Count One of the indictment because he knew well before May 11 2000 and the prison visit that he couldn't do what he did 12 there. 13 Now, Mohammed Yousry is not a lawyer. He is not a 14 practicing Muslim. He is not a fundamentalist. He is not a 15 supporter of Abdel Rahman or of the Islamic Group. And alone, 16 among these three defendants, Mohammed Yousry is not someone 17 who supports or believes in the use of violence to achieve what 18 he wants. Alone among these three defendants. 19 And although Mohammed Yousry knew that his material 20 support, Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of the support for the 21 cease-fire was being provided to the conspiracy to murder, 22 which is enough to convict him of Counts Four and Five, 23 Mohammed Yousry was not someone who intended to provide his 24 material support to the conspiracy to kill. He doesn't have to 25 be or do any of these things in order to be guilty of all of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12075 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 the charges against him. Judge Koeltl will instruct you on the 2 law. 3 So, what Mr. Stern told you about Mohammed Yousry's 4 beliefs and his attacks on the government for trying Mohammed 5 Yousry for his beliefs just doesn't have anything to do with 6 what you need to decide because the government isn't saying 7 that Mohammed Yousry believed in violence. No one from the 8 government has ever stood up before you and said that and I'm 9 not going to either because the real issues for you to decide 10 are whether Mohammed Yousry knew that his material support was 11 being provided to the conspiracy to kill and whether he knew 12 that what he was doing was unlawful and therefore violated the 13 SAMs and defrauded the United States. 14 And the conspiracy to murder that he knew has was 15 providing the material support to, it's a conspiracy about 16 which Mohammed Yousry probably had as much knowledge of anyone 17 in the world, including the people who were a member of it 18 because he was an expert on Abdel Rahman, on the Islamic Group, 19 Taha, and the violence that they wrought. 20 Now, Mohammed Yousry and, on his behalf, Mr. Stern 21 claims, that Mohammed Yousry just didn't know what the SAMs 22 prohibited and he just did what the lawyers told him and he was 23 just an interpreter doing his job. It is an interesting story 24 but it's not true because Mohammed Yousry can't be believed 25 when he tells you this because he can't really be believed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12076 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 about anything truly important to this case. 2 Mohammed Yousry tried to create an impression for you 3 of himself when he was on the witness stand that isn't true and 4 is not supported by the evidence. He tried to create the 5 impression for you on direct that he didn't know much about 6 Taha in May of 2000. That wasn't true. 7 He claimed that on direct he was truthful with the FBI 8 in his interviews with them after 9/11. That wasn't true. 9 He tried to depict himself as being out of the loop in 10 May and June of 2000 just before Lynne Stewart's press release. 11 That wasn't true either. 12 He tried to tell you that the letter that Sattar sent 13 in and Lynne Stewart carried in to Abdel Rahman in May of 2000 14 was just relaying a request by Taha by some people close to 15 Muntasir Al-Zayat who wanted to escalate things in the media. 16 That wasn't true either. 17 You learned that he manipulated and falsified his 18 resume by lying about his educational background. You learned 19 that he made false statements to the IRS and he claimed that on 20 direct that he had never seen or read the SAMs prior to May of 21 2000. That wasn't true either. 22 And no matter how many close friends and associates 23 and close acquaintances he brings in here to try to tell you or 24 to try to help himself, you know the facts and you listened to 25 him and watched him testify. You heard him talk, look you in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12077 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 the eye and not tell the truth. 2 He can't just assert that he is telling you the truth 3 and call a pastor or a friend to say that he is. The true test 4 is what did he say to you, under oath, about this case when he 5 was trying to get out of trouble. 6 Let me go through this. Mohammed Yousry tried to 7 create an impression for you on direct that he didn't know much 8 about Taha in May of 2000. And, as I told you, it wasn't true. 9 He told you in the transcript page 2964, the first time I heard 10 of Taha was in late 1999 and at that time, he said, he just 11 learned that he had been, quote, removed from the leadership, 12 end quote, of IG. 9164 of the transcript. 13 And he suggested to you that because he wasn't able to 14 read this one single article, it was Government Exhibit 2020, 15 that he had gotten because the print was too small about Taha, 16 he couldn't read it and he tried to enlarge it on a copy 17 machine. Because he couldn't read that he tried to imply to 18 you that he didn't really know who Taha was and what he was all 19 about. 20 When Taha was asking Abdel Rahman to withdraw his 21 support for the cease-fire, he talks about that in the 22 transcript at 9166 and 9167. That was not a true impression 23 that Mohammed Yousry was trying to create for you because you 24 know that Mohammed Yousry is an expert on the Islamic Group on 25 Egypt and the people involved in it. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12078 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 As Sattar told you, anyone who knows anything about 2 Egypt knows who Taha is. 3 And you learned on cross-examination by Ms. Baker for 4 the first time from Mohammed Yousry that he knew everything he 5 needed to know about Taha. He knew that he was a leader on the 6 shura council. He knew he had been appointed ground leader of 7 the Islamic Group by Abdel Rahman. He knew that Taha went to 8 Afghanistan to train the military wing of the Islamic Group. 9 He knew that Taha headed the military wing of the Islamic Group 10 in Afghanistan. He knew that Taha had signed the Fatwah with 11 Bin Laden in February '97 and he knew that Taha was against the 12 cease-fire. He knew all of that and you didn't learn it until 13 cross. 14 Now Mohammed Yousry also claimed broadly to you on 15 direct that he was truthful with the FBI in his interviews. 16 That wasn't true either. He tried to tell you that he 17 cooperated fully and truthfully with the FBI when they came to 18 interview him. 19 Page 9113 of the transcript, quote, did you tell the 20 truth to the best of your ability to agent whittle and 21 Detective Napoli about everything they asked you about? 22 Question by his lawyer, Mr. Ruhnke. 23 "A Yes, I did. 24 That wasn't true. Because he was asked by the FBI 25 about Taha and about Sattar's contact with Taha. Mr. Stern SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12079 51A5SAT5 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 talked about this a little bit and Yousry told you that he 2 first told the FBI, this is transcript 9872 and 9873, that he 3 knew, to the FBI, that Sattar had contact with some IG members 4 but that Yousry didn't know which ones. And Mohammed Yousry 5 didn't think that Sattar was in contact with Islamic Group 6 leaders. 7 You told the FBI on September 13th that you did not 8 know specifically which Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya leaders he was 9 in contact with, correct? 10 "A No, I did not." 11 Then Yousry claimed that he cleared it up all by 12 telling everything to the FBI about Taha the next day and he 13 described to you what he told the FBI. He told them, this is 14 page 9864 and 9898 of the transcript, that in his dissertation 15 he wrote that Taha is the leader of an IG fringe group who was 16 in Afghanistan stand. He told the FBI he said that in his 17 dissertation. And he claimed to clear it up further by the FBI 18 later on April 9th of 2002 when he was arrested that he knew 19 Sattar was in, quote, his word, in direct contact with Taha and 20 that he learned that on May 19th. 21 That was transcript page 9899. 22 (Continued on next page) 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12080 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 MR. BARKOW: 2 "Q What did you tell the FBI about that on April 9, 2002? 3 "A I told them that I was aware that Mr. Sattar was indirectly 4 in contact with Mr. Taha, and I became aware of that on May 19 5 of 2000. Compare this information trickle to the truth and to 6 the evidence. The May 2000 letter from Sattar saying -- 7 relaying the request into Abdel Rahman said that Sattar was in 8 "semiconstant contact with Mustafa Hamza and Taha and that 9 Sattar had talked to Taha the day before yesterday." That is 10 not indirect contact. Sattar's letter said he talked to Taha 11 the day before yesterday. That is direct contact. And what 12 Yousry told the FBI was a lie. 13 And then he told the FBI that he never relayed a 14 message from Taha to Abdel Rahman. That's at page 9864 of the 15 transcript. And you know that's not true because that's what 16 this case is all about. 17 Now, he talked to the FBI about the Cole bombing. 18 Mr. Stern asked, what's the government's beef about the Cole? 19 Is it that Mohammed Yousry never told the FBI about the 20 conversation with Abdel Rahman about the Cole? Yes, that's our 21 beef. Mohammed Yousry told the FBI that the call was never the 22 topic of discussion with Abdel Rahman during a visit other than 23 to read him news accounts and that he was sure he would have 24 remembered it if it had been. That's in the transcript, page 25 9866 to 67. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12081 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 And the next day, Mohammed Yousry said he told the FBI 2 that the call was discussed but only during telephone calls 3 with Abdel Rahman. That's at pages 9868 and 69 of the 4 transcript. Compare that to the truth and to the evidence. 5 The truth is that Abdel Rahman was told during a prison visit 6 by Mohammed Yousry that Sattar got a call saying that the Cole 7 bombing was done for Abdel Rahman and that the caller wanted to 8 threaten the United States. These defendants aren't charged 9 with anything having to do with the call. And what I'm telling 10 you here is that Mohammed Yousry lied to the FBI when he was 11 asked about it. 12 Then on redirect, only after being confronted with 13 these inconsistencies and lies on cross-examination by 14 Ms. Baker, Mohammed Yousry said that he told the FBI that 15 Sattar got a call from someone who said the call was done for 16 Abdel Rahman. But he still left out the fact that Sattar got 17 the call about the Cole and that it was told to Abdel Rahman 18 even though he was asked, Mohammed Yousry was asked by the FBI 19 about the letters, if any, that were read in the July 2001 20 prison visit. 21 And he told the FBI that the only message to Abdel 22 Rahman during that visit was a letter from his family regarding 23 a property dispute, transcript page 9859 and 60. And that the 24 only message from Abdel Rahman's son during that visit was 25 whether the son should get married, transcript page 9863 and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12082 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 64. Compare that to the truth and to the evidence. Mohammed 2 Abdel Rahman, Abdel Rahman's son, you remember him, Asadallah. 3 He sent a letter into Abdel Rahman about the ceasefire during 4 the July 2001 prison visit. That's Government Exhibit 1716X, 5 pages 61 to 63. That is the Mohammed Abdel Rahman letter and 6 it is about the ceasefire. It is not about property and it is 7 not about -- it is not just about property and it is not just 8 about getting married. It is about the ceasefire. 9 Now, Mohammed Yousry and Mr. Stern tried to argue to 10 you that Mohammed Yousry was out of the loop regarding the 11 withdrawal of support of the ceasefire. He testified that he 12 didn't talk to Lynne Stewart between May 20, 2000 and June 13 13 of 2000, trying to create the impression for you that once the 14 visit was over, his work was done because he was just a 15 translator. 16 And Mr. Stern says to you that the Abdel Rahman 17 message changed over time without Mohammed Yousry's involvement 18 to suggest to you that Mohammed Yousry wasn't so involved in 19 the press release. Then Mr. Stern criticized Mr. Dember for 20 misspeaking, that he said Sattar called Yousry as opposed to 21 Yousry calling Sattar, or vice versa, actually, on June 13, 22 2000, Government Exhibit 1104X. That's a call just after Lynne 23 Stewart issued the press release for the withdrawal of support 24 of the ceasefire to Esmat Salaheddin. In that call Yousry 25 asked Sattar: Praise God, did Lynne do that thing? And Sattar SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12083 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 says: Yeah, yeah. Yousry says: Okay, fine, good, good. This 2 is June 13, 6:06 p.m., just after Lynne Stewart issues the 3 withdrawal of support of the ceasefire. 4 The point of that call is not that Yousry called 5 Sattar or Sattar called Yousry or vice versa. The point of the 6 call is that Mohammed Yousry tried to depict himself to you as 7 being out of the loop on the press release. But this call 8 shows that Mohammed Yousry knew that the press release was 9 going to happen before it did because he knew enough to ask 10 Sattar whether it had just happened that afternoon, which it 11 did. And he knew that it was going to happen before it did and 12 before it was reported. He was so closely in the loop that he 13 knew it was going to happen exactly when it did, before the 14 story was even published the next day. 15 Now, Mohammed Yousry tried to tell you that Sattar's 16 and Taha's request to Abdel Rahman to support Taha in ending 17 the ceasefire was just about a request by some people in touch 18 with al-Zayyat who wanted to escalate the media. This is page 19 9206 of the transcript. Question from Mr. Ruhnke: 20 "Q Do you remember what the question was in sum and substance? 21 "A In substance, the question was to escalate the rhetoric in 22 the media. 23 "Q Was there a question posed to Sheikh Rahman? 24 "A There was a suggestion to him that some people who were in 25 touch with Muntasir al-Zayat in Egypt would like to escalate SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12084 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 the rhetoric in the media. 2 This is what Mohammed Yousry really said to Abdel 3 Rahman at the time during the visit, Government Exhibit 1711X 4 at page 31. Whispering: Well, Abu Yasir is asking. He wants 5 Abdel Rahman, he wants your approval that he could escalate in 6 the media and try to rearrange the thinking of the initiative 7 completely. As long as the government is escalating, he 8 doesn't want to give up. And this is what the letter really 9 said, 1707X at page 35. You know that the man has his massive 10 weight among many brothers. And if the regime worries about 11 anyone, it is Abu Yasir. And it said this: Those who push to 12 go by the initiative are the brothers in Liman and very few 13 outside, others outside. Abu Yasir is of the opinion that the 14 group has to well-utilize the initiative paper. The least to 15 do is media escalation. Brother Abu Yasir and many other 16 brother think that all these things need you, Abdel Rahman, to 17 have a more forceful position. No objection to the formation 18 of a team that calls for the cancellation of the ceasefire, of 19 the initiative, or makes threats or escalates things. Please, 20 say your opinion about this. Dictate some points, and we can 21 announce it in a press conference with Lynne. 22 Did he think you had forgotten the evidence when he 23 described it to you? 24 Why would he not tell the truth about these things? 25 Why would he falsely distance himself from Taha, who he knew SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12085 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 all about? Why would he falsely distance himself from the 2 withdrawal of support for the ceasefire, which is at the center 3 of the case? Why would he falsely distance himself from Abdel 4 Rahman? Why would he falsely distance himself from telling 5 Abdel Rahman about the call, which he tried to cover up at the 6 time, which I'll get to? Why? Just like he falsely distanced 7 himself from his knowledge of the SAMs, because he knows, if 8 you know that he knew these things, you're going to find him 9 guilty. 10 Now, Mohammed Yousry claims that he didn't know what 11 the SAMs prohibited or what they allowed and no one ever told 12 ever told them what they prohibited or allowed. He was just 13 following the lead of the lawyers, and he assumed they were 14 just getting it right. This is not true. He had the SAMs, he 15 read them, he wrote about them in his dissertation. He knew 16 all about them. And Mr. Stern argued to you that when Mohammed 17 Yousry said he would get in trouble, that only meant that 18 Mohammed Yousry thought that the visits or calls might get cut 19 off, and that Mohammed Yousry never thought he would end up 20 sitting right here. 21 Judge Koeltl will instruct you that to be found to 22 have knowingly joined the Count 1 conspiracy, Mohammed Yousry 23 doesn't need to know that he violated any particular law. He 24 needs only to be aware of the generally unlawful nature of what 25 he did. And Mohammed Yousry knew that what he was doing was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12086 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 unlawful. Was Mohammed Yousry aware of the goal of this 2 conspiracy and that it was circumventing the SAMs and violating 3 the law and defrauding the United States? What better evidence 4 could there be, could there possibly be than how I started, 5 that Mohammed Yousry knew about all of this in his 6 dissertation, what he wrote six or five months before he did 7 what he did, about which there was no response. 8 Soon after his lawyers began publishing Sheikh Omar's 9 condition and views, the U.S. Government requested that all 10 four of his lawyers and the only authorized interpreter sign an 11 agreement not to disclose any part of their conversation with 12 the Sheikh to the media. In February of 1999, the lawyers 13 found a way to circumvent some of the restrictions, conclusive 14 evidence that when Mohammed Yousry wrote that in late '99 or 15 the first two months of 2000, long before May 2000, he knew all 16 he needed to know. 17 Now, let's talk about what else the evidence shows 18 that Mohammed Yousry knew and when he knew it. Mohammed Yousry 19 talked to Abdel Rahman in 1998 and he told Abdel Rahman that 20 those who work with the lawyers have to abide by the SAMs. 21 This is Mohammed Yousry, 1002-CT, page 84. It is their exhibit 22 they put it into evidence. It says about the SAM, SAM, 23 5/11/98. Special Administrative Measures, SAM, concerning 24 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. The lawyers, members of their staff 25 and those who work with them. They should abide by this law, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12087 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 struck out, administrative order. Those who work with them 2 should abide by this administrative order. And this was a 3 conversation, as he told you, transcript 9780 to 81, this was a 4 conversation with Abdel Rahman in the middle of 1998, May or 5 June. 6 What else did Mohammed Yousry know and when did he 7 know it? Government Exhibit 2405-4. He had a copy of the 8 regulation stating the purpose of the SAMs. It was faxed to 9 him, as you can see on the top line, September 14 of 1998 and 10 found in his office. The regulation stating the purpose of the 11 SAMs. 12 What else did Mohammed Yousry know and when did he 13 know it? Government Exhibit 2415-10, a March 9, 1999 letter 14 from the Bureau of Prisons found, again, in his home that he 15 had about the refusal by the prison to admit some tapes into 16 the prison that were mailed to him, mailed to Abdel Rahman. 17 And it says in the letter, if you scroll down, that the tapes 18 were barred because the SAMs bar the discussion of illegal 19 activity or things that attempt to circumvent the SAMs. These 20 tapes were tapes of Taha's book. That was not allowed into the 21 prison. 22 And one of these lawyers said something about Abdeen 23 Jabara and suggesting that Abdeen Jabara did something wrong by 24 mailing this in. No. Abdeen Jabara followed the rules. 25 Abdeen Jabara mailed it to the Bureau of Prisons and it was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12088 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 rejected. He didn't hide it in his note pad and bring it in. 2 He mailed it to the Bureau of Prisons and it was rejected. But 3 Mohammed Yousry had this letter in his possession. He tried to 4 tell you on direct examination that he didn't know that SAMs 5 restricted mail, but he was confronted with this letter on 6 cross-examination and had no explanation. 7 What else did Mohammed Yousry know and when did he 8 know it? September 1999, Ramsey Clark, Mohammed Yousry knew, 9 refused to issue Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of support for the 10 ceasefire. Mohammed Yousry knew it and he knew that Ramsey 11 Clark did it because he thought it was illegal. How do you 12 know that? Well, whatever other messages Mohammed Yousry might 13 have thought were okay, because they were approved by the 14 lawyers in the past or not, and whatever he thought was okay to 15 relay, he knows in September 1999 that the lawyer he claims to 16 respect the most, Ramsey Clark, said no. You can't relay a 17 withdrawal of support for the ceasefire. 18 How do you know the reason that Ramsey Clark did this 19 and the fact that Mohammed Yousry knew it? Government Exhibit 20 1030X, page 1. Sattar and Yousry talk and Sattar says about 21 Clark: "He probably figured it out from the -- from its legal 22 angle. And then later on in the conversation Yousry says that 23 he is not exactly okay with that. And he says: He should have 24 written it to the press about Clark. We can solve this problem 25 next week. But they didn't solve it the next week. It took SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12089 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 nine months until Lynne Stewart visited Abdel Rahman. 2 What else did Mohammed Yousry know about this and how 3 do you know? Government Exhibit 2312-40T. This is a document 4 found in Yousry's office. And it says that Sattar is telling 5 Taha that Ramsey Clark decided not to release the statement "in 6 light of the discussion of the issue from all sides, 7 calculating the pros and cons here at least. We elected not to 8 issue this statement. It can cause a negative reaction, 9 particularly from the legal side here. So we decided not to 10 issue it. Mohammed Yousry didn't testify about September 1999 11 because there is no spin that he can put on this. 12 And, instead, Mr. Stern argued to you generally, when 13 talking about whether Ramsey Clark -- he talked about whether 14 Ramsey Clark had an agenda for the meetings, but he didn't talk 15 about this visit. And Mr. Stern said in the course of saying 16 that: "When Ramsey Clark tells you something is okay, it must 17 be okay." Well, when Ramsey Clark tells Mohammed Yousry that 18 it isn't okay and it isn't legal to relay a withdrawal of 19 support for the ceasefire, it must not be okay. 20 What else did Mohammed Yousry know and when did he 21 know it? Government Exhibit 2312-37, Mohammed Yousry had a 22 copy of the SAMs as modified on December 10 of 1999 in his 23 possession, found in his house, in his office. This must have 24 been the source of what he wrote in his dissertation late in 25 1999 or in the first two months of 2000. It is dated December SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12090 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 10, '99. And that's when he wrote all about the SAMs, in his 2 dissertation. He claimed on direct to you that all his copies 3 of the SAMs postdated May 2000, postdated the press release by 4 Lynne Stewart withdrawing Abdel Rahman's support for the 5 ceasefire. But then he was confronted with this, found in his 6 home, dated before the prison visit. 7 What else did Mohammed Yousry know and when did he 8 know it? February 2000, Mohammed Yousry knows that Abdeen 9 Jabara says no to press conferences and no to dictating a 10 letter to the Islamic Group because of the SAMs. February 18 11 of 2000, Mohammed Yousry testified, Abdeen Jabara said no press 12 releases about the ceasefire. And then on February 19 of 2000, 13 Abdeen Jabara says no to dictating a letter to the Islamic 14 Group. 1701X at 34 Yousry tells Jabara: Mr. Abdeen, when you 15 went to ask them about the coffee, he told me he wants to 16 dictate a letter to al-Gama'a al-Islamiya. Jabara: No. 17 Mr. Stern tries to spin this by pointing selectively 18 to the conversation that follows and arguing to you that 19 because Jabara didn't say to Mohammed Yousry at this time, no, 20 never do that when Yousry tells Jabara that Abdel Rahman is 21 going to just give this to Clark or to Lynne Stewart later. 22 Because he says no, never did that, Mohammed Yousry couldn't 23 have figured it out that it was illegal and unlawful to do 24 this, to issue statements from Taha to Abdel Rahman and back 25 out. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12091 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 But, interestingly, Mr. Stern doesn't point to 2 Mohammed Yousry's testimony on this point because Mohammed 3 Yousry's testimony on this point, if you recall, was nervous 4 and nonsensical. But look at the evidence. Abdeen Jabara 5 tells Mohammed Yousry that neither Abdeen Jabara or Ramsey 6 Clark will do this. Neither of them will release this message. 7 Mohammed Yousry already knew that about Ramsey Clark in 8 September 1999, so Mohammed Yousry knows that two of the 9 lawyers won't do it. So by the time he gets there in May of 10 2000, he knows that Lynne Stewart is the only one of the three 11 who will do this. 1701X, pages 34 to 37. Mohammed Yousry 12 explains to Abdeen Jabara what Abdel Rahman said: "He told me 13 I will take it to Ramsey and I give it to Ramsey and maybe 14 Ramsey will give it to Ahmed." And Abdeen Jabara says: Again, 15 no. And then Abdeen Jabara says: Ramsey and I talked about 16 this. He said that whatever happens I should not get in a 17 situation where I get cut off. And you know that Abdeen Jabara 18 meant when he said cut off, it meant that he would be cut off 19 because of the SAMs and the affirmations. 20 How do you know this? Because Mohammed Yousry wrote 21 it in his notebooks. 1004-CT, page 752, he writes about what 22 Jabara said at the time: No, Sheikh, I cannot do all this, 23 perform, because Ramsey and I agreed. This agreement, the 24 SAMs, the affirmation, and then 1062X, February 28, 2000, page 25 3, Sattar tells Hamza that Sattar learned from the visit that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12092 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Abdel Rahman agrees with Taha. He says: "The other thing is, 2 he said without going in details that he tends to agree with 3 Sheikh Abu Yasir's opinion." These are the few words that were 4 said. No details, because the circumstances didn't allow any 5 details. 6 Sounds like Abdeen Jabara spent too much time getting 7 coffee or going to the bathroom one day because the message 8 still made it out, even though Abdeen Jabara said no, the 9 message still made it out. But the circumstances that Jabara 10 was saying no made it so that the details couldn't get out, the 11 statement couldn't get out. Jabara wouldn't allow Yousry to 12 write it down and take it out. But the message still got out, 13 even though Abdeen Jabara said no. 14 How does Sattar know that this happened? He wasn't 15 there. Who else was there? Mohammed Yousry was there. And 16 Sattar then tells Hamza that Yousry got scared because "the 17 main person speaks Arabic." He scared Mohammed. And about 18 Abdeen Jabara, he says: "The other guy, he said no. I signed 19 papers. I was very angry at him. Sattar wasn't there. And 20 you know what Abdeen Jabara said during the visit. He said no 21 because Ramsey and I agree. How does Sattar know that Jabara 22 told Yousry that Jabara refused because he signed papers? 23 Mohammed Yousry told him. 24 Government Exhibit 1063X, March 18 of 2000. This is a 25 call that Mr. Dember talked about. Sattar and Yousry talk and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12093 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Yousry says that he previously asked for a copy of the SAMs and 2 got them. Sattar tells Yousry he needs a copy of the SAMs for 3 Kaukab Siddique and Yousry says: Well, I had a copy. Page 5, 4 he says: I did ask Abdeen for a copy before. Pages 6 and 7 he 5 says: I do have a copy of it. Mohammed Yousry previously 6 asked for a copy of it. Why? If not to look at it, why? If 7 not to read it? 8 And what else is interesting about this call, when 9 Sattar needs an extra copy of the SAMs to give to Kaukab 10 Siddique, who does he call? Not Ramsey Clark, not Abdeen 11 Jabara, not Larry Schilling, not even Lynne Stewart. Mohammed 12 Yousry to get a copy of the SAMs. 13 Finally, what else did Mohammed Yousry know and when 14 did he know it? Government Exhibit 2305-1. Mohammed Yousry 15 had a copy -- I'm sorry. Had the original signed with blue 16 ink, the original letter from AUSA, Assistant U.S. Attorney, to 17 Jabara and Clark and Lynne Stewart with a copy of the SAMs 18 attached and dated April 7 of 1999 as modified December 10, 19 1999. Mohammed Yousry knew what the SAMs said before May of 20 2000. He read them. He had them, he wrote about them, he 21 talked about them. But he ignored them and he violated them. 22 Now, Mohammed Yousry repeats his mantra that the 23 lawyers approved it. I just did what the lawyers said. You 24 know it is not true because what Mohammed Yousry told you is 25 not true. But you have another reason, even aside from the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12094 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 fact that Mohammed Yousry read and knew what the SAMs said and 2 had them to find that he knew what he was doing was prohibited. 3 It is called conscious avoidance. Mohammed Yousry doesn't 4 actually have to know what the SAMs prohibit and doesn't have 5 to read them. Judge Koeltl will instruct you on conscious 6 avoidance. Mohammed Yousry can't deliberately close his eyes 7 to something that otherwise would have been obvious to him. 8 And Mohammed Yousry claims that he doesn't view 9 himself as an independent actor in all this. He is just an 10 extension of the lawyers. He is not acting independently. But 11 he admits that he knows that the lawyers have to sign the 12 affirmations and swear to abide by the SAMs. That's the 13 transcript at page 8967. And Mohammed Yousry said that he knew 14 in '98 or '99 because he wrote it in his notebook at the time, 15 that the lawyers and those members of their staff and those who 16 work with them have to abide by the SAMs, Exhibit Mohammed 17 Yousry 1002-CT, page 204. He had a copy of the SAMs in his 18 possession and he knew they governed Abdel's Rahman ability to 19 communicate with the outside world. He knew the SAMs were 20 being circumvented. He wrote it in his dissertation. 21 At the absolute best for Mohammed Yousry, he stuck his 22 head in the sand and he deliberately avoided knowing what would 23 have been obvious to him if he had just looked and expended any 24 effort. And Mr. Stern argues, why would he do this? It is 25 called motive. He says Mohammed Yousry didn't want to teach at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12095 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Harvard, so he couldn't have been involved in any of this. Who 2 knows why Mohammed Yousry did it? Maybe because he wanted a 3 better dissertation. Maybe he wanted to keep better access to 4 his unique source of information so he could write and finish 5 his dissertation. So maybe he could get a better job. Maybe 6 none of these reasons. Maybe just selfishness. Maybe he got 7 caught up in people who thought their cause made them above the 8 law. 9 It is hard to figure out sometimes why someone breaks 10 the law. You hear it all the time, someone does something, and 11 the neighbors say, I don't understand. He was such a good guy. 12 It doesn't make any sense to me. Of course, motive and why 13 Mohammed Yousry did what he did is not an element of any of the 14 offenses charged against him. And so listen when Judge Koeltl 15 tells you what the law requires. We don't need to prove why. 16 Really, this is just a diversion because the evidence that 17 Mohammed Yousry conspired to defraud the SAMs by circumventing 18 the SAMs and defraud the United States by circumventing the 19 SAMs is overwhelming. It is crystal clear, it is clear that he 20 knew he was doing something wrong. It is clear that he knew 21 what the SAMs barred and it is clear that he lied to you. 22 Your Honor, can we take a break? 23 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will take a 24 ten-minute break. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember my continuing SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12096 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 instructions. Please don't talk about this case at all. 2 Always remember to keep an open mind until you have heard my 3 instructions on the law and gone to the jury room to begin your 4 deliberations. 5 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 6 jury room. 7 (Jury not present) 8 THE COURT: 10 minutes. 9 (Recess) 10 THE COURT: Mr. Grate is here. That's the reason why 11 there is a delay. 12 (Jury present) 13 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, remember my 14 continuing instructions that nothing the lawyers say is 15 evidence, and I will instruct you on the law. 16 Mr. Barkow, you may proceed. 17 MR. BARKOW: How else do you know that Mohammed Yousry 18 knew what he was breaking the law? Because he tried to cover 19 it up, covering noises. Now, this argument relates to both 20 Mohammed Yousry and Lynne Stewart. And I am going to make this 21 argument at the same time with respect to both of them. I'm 22 not going to do it twice. On the screen for you this will be 23 the -- this is the last page of Government Exhibit 2634, Lynne 24 Stewart's notebook. Every so often interrupt to give "an 25 English translation" of some sort crossed out. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12097 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 What do I mean by the term covering noises? What I 2 mean by that is Lynne Stewart shaking a water bottle and 3 saying, I'm just making covering noises. Mohammed Yousry 4 telling Lynne Stewart to talk so it doesn't look strange. 5 Lynne Stewart not really participating in a conversation, but 6 instead talking over Mohammed Yousry and Abdel Rahman by 7 talking about sometimes blatant nonsense or things that have 8 nothing to do with the conversation that's actually happening 9 between Yousry and Abdel Rahman, or Mohammed Yousry and Lynne 10 Stewart destroying, hiding, or leaving things behind to avoid 11 detection. 12 Mohammed Yousry and Lynne Stewart want you to believe 13 that they did these covering noises because they wanted to keep 14 the visits from being interrupted. Mr. Stern argued that and 15 Mr. Tigar argued that. Or because they wanted to keep some 16 things private, some legal strategy or secret, as Mr. Tigar 17 argued to you by making reference to something that Pat 18 Fitzgerald said to you. 19 Mohammed Yousry and Lynne Stewart have to make 20 something up on this because they were caught redhanded on 21 videotape, on audiotape. They had no idea that they were being 22 taped. They had no idea that they would be caught doing these 23 covering noises. And so now they have to make something up to 24 get out of it. If they were only doing it to avoid 25 interruption or to keep some strategy private, to get some SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12098 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 private space, then why, why does every single time they did 2 this? Why does every single time they do covering noises? Why 3 is it when they are covering up communications about terrorism 4 or information about terrorists. Why? Why, if they just 5 wanted to have some privacy, or wanted to avoid interruption, 6 why do they never do any of these covering noises when they are 7 talking about other things, like prison conditions, or the 8 warden, or visits, or watches? They only need to be aware of 9 the generally unlawful nature of their actions. And the 10 covering noises show you that they knew it was wrong to relay 11 terrorist information and to talk about terrorism and 12 terrorists, so they had to cover it up. 13 Let's take a trip through the May 2000 visit and the 14 July 2001 visit and discuss the covering noises, all of them. 15 May 19, 2000, 1706 Government Exhibit, pages 20 to 26, six 16 pages, several minutes. They are talking about Louis Farrakhan 17 and how he wants to visit Abdel Rahman or Abdel Rahman wants 18 him to visit him or something like that. Would this fit the 19 definition of legal strategy? Well, there is no covering 20 noises then. 21 1706, pages 40 to 48, eight full, long pages of 22 Mohammed Yousry reading to Abdel Rahman. Not a single word by 23 Lynne Stewart. Not a single covering noise by Lynne Stewart or 24 by Mohammed Yousry. A long time passes and no covering noise. 25 But I thought that they cared about not getting interrupted and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12099 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 that it looked funny when Mohammed Yousry would talk for a long 2 time and Lynne Stewart wouldn't say anything and that it 3 happened before that they got interrupted. So they didn't want 4 to make it look like something like that was happening. But 5 here you've got eight long pages without any covering noises, 6 without a peep from Lynne Stewart, nothing. Why not? What are 7 they talking about? 8 Government Exhibit 1706, pages 40 to 42. They are 9 talking about Nabil Elmasry's prayer watch and his son 10 drowning. Do you think they are covering that up? No. 1706, 11 pages 43 to 45, they are talking about toilet paper and toilet 12 cleansers for the mosque. Do you think they cover that up? 13 No. 14 1706 at page 44, they are talking about whether a 15 worshipper who forgets to kneel during prayer should repeat the 16 prayer or just take it as though he had done it right the first 17 time. Do they cover that up? No. I guess they don't care if 18 those conversations are interrupted. Government Exhibit 1706 19 at pages 50 to 55, about an hour into the visit Mohammed Yousry 20 turns to Lynne Stewart and says: "Lynne, look at me and talk a 21 little bit because they are watching us closely. They are 22 standing very close to the glass. And Lynne Stewart 23 immediately starts making covering noises by talking about 24 chocolate and a heart attack. 25 Then Lynne Stewart starts to direct the show by saying SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12100 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 "Stop a minute now and say to him, you know, you understood 2 what we are saying." And then Lynne Stewart makes some 3 comments that have absolutely nothing to do with what Yousry 4 and Abdel Rahman are talking about. And Mohammed Yousry, he 5 translates and he says to Abdel Rahman: "Lynne just says 6 anything." And then Lynne Stewart translates, saying: "I can 7 get an Academy Award for it." Both of them are doing this for 8 the very first time in this prison visit. 9 What's happening? Why are they doing it now and why 10 didn't they do it back when they were talking about the watch 11 or the toilet paper? Because Mohammed Yousry just started 12 reading Taha's al-Azhar statement urging violent action against 13 the regime by Egyptian youth. This covering noise just started 14 when Mohammed Yousry told Lynne Stewart, look at me and talk to 15 me. The first time, Lynne Stewart, chocolate, heart attack. 16 Lynne just says anything. I can get an Academy Award. 17 Why are they doing it now? Because they are talking 18 about Taha calling for violence with Abdel Rahman. 1706X, page 19 64. They are talking about the conditions lawsuit that Lynne 20 Stewart didn't file. That would qualify as legal strategy or 21 stuff that you have to do that you might want private space for 22 or what have you, wouldn't it? Are they doing covering noises 23 then? Not one. 24 Government Exhibit 1707X, pages 2 to 4. They are 25 talking about the smells that Abdel Rahman smells and his teeth SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12101 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 and cookies. Are they covering that up? Of course not. 2 1707X, pages 16 to 17. They are talking about Louis Farrakhan 3 again. I guess they don't care if that gets interrupted 4 because they don't cover that up again. 5 Exhibit 1707X, page 17 to 19 and page 26, they are 6 talking about the legal committee to free Abdel Rahman and the 7 lawsuit that Lynne Stewart never filed. Are they covering that 8 up? No. 9 Then Government Exhibit 1707X at page 29, there is a 10 half hour left in the visit and they return to Ahmed Sattar's 11 letter that carries the message from Rifa'i Taha asking Abdel 12 Rahman to withdraw his support for the ceasefire. Here we go 13 again. If they find out what this is, we are in trouble. That 14 happens then. Because they both knew if they got caught what 15 they were doing and were sitting here before you, they would be 16 in trouble. Lynne Stewart touches Mohammed Yousry's hand and 17 she says: "Ahmed's son needs glasses. And Mohammed Yousry 18 translates to Abdel Rahman: Stop, because they are by the 19 glass. They are speaking in code to one another. Clearly they 20 talked before and got it together. Ahmed's son needs glasses 21 means guards are by the glass. And then they both laugh. They 22 laugh at how they are breaking the law and defrauding the 23 United States. 24 Then Government Exhibit 1707X, pages 31 to 32. 25 Mohammed Yousry is reading Ahmed's Sattar's letter and Lynne SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12102 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Stewart says: "I don't think this lady speaks Arabic, do you? 2 Mohammed Yousry translates, but he is just really telling Abdel 3 Rahman what's going on. He says Lynne is watching them, she is 4 watching them." Then Government Exhibit 1707X, pages 34 to 37. 5 Sattar's letter is turned over. And what happens? What's on 6 the letter when you turn it over? What part of the letter is 7 right at the top when you turn it over? The part where Sattar 8 says: I am in semiconstant contact with Taha and Hamza. The 9 part right when Sattar gets to the part when he is asking Abdel 10 Rahman to support him and Taha to withdraw his support for the 11 ceasefire. It is right there when the letter is turned over, 12 pages 34 to 37. And right when they get to the spot where Taha 13 and Sattar are asking Abdel Rahman to approve "the formation of 14 a team that calls for the cancellation of the ceasefire and the 15 making of threats." Those are quotes. 16 Remember, Mohammed Yousry went over this with Lynne 17 Stewart on the way to the visit on the plane. And right when 18 they get to this spot Mohammed Yousry makes a hand motion to 19 Lynne Stewart right when he turns it over because Mohammed 20 Yousry knows that they have reached the part, the heart of the 21 terroristic communication that they are not supposed to be 22 bringing in there. And Mohammed Yousry and Lynne Stewart know 23 that what the letter says when they turn it over because they 24 talked about it on the plane before they got there. 25 And on cue Yousry makes the hand motion, Lynne Stewart SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12103 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 starts talking about food and sleep because she knows that this 2 is the heart of the terrorist communication that they are not 3 supposed to bring into that prison to Abdel Rahman. And Lynne 4 Stewart laughs. She laughs again. She laughs at how she was 5 defrauding the United States. She laughs because she thinks 6 that she is getting away with it. 7 Now, the next day, May 20 of 2000, Government Exhibit 8 1710X at pages 1 and 2, they are talking about the warden. 9 Sounds like something that might be about legal stuff. Are 10 they covering that up? You know the answer to that. Of course 11 not. But then 1710X at page 14 Abdel Rahman starts his letter, 12 starts dictating a letter in which he responds to the ceasefire 13 to Taha and Sattar. And at that point Yousry knocks twice 14 knows to Lynne Stewart's pad and on cue, once again, Lynne 15 Stewart starts talking about things that are irrelevant and 16 have nothing to do with anything legal. 17 And Lynne Stewart tells Yousry to find out "what were 18 on those tapes that he didn't receive? So if I write them a 19 letter, I can describe them better." Yousry relays that to 20 Abdel Rahman. Abdel Rahman, confused here, says: But didn't 21 you do that already? He doesn't understand what's happening. 22 He says: Why are you telling me about this? Didn't you do 23 that already? Yousry says: Yes, I had them. She just has to 24 say, in order to break the -- the people are looking." 25 What is happening here? Why are they doing this now? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12104 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Why are they doing covering noises now? Because Abdel Rahman 2 just started dictating his letter to Sattar and Taha, which 3 includes his withdrawal of support for the ceasefire, and they 4 cover it up. 5 Then Government Exhibit 1710X, pages 17 and 18, more 6 of Abdel Rahman's response. And amid dictation by Abdel, Lynne 7 Stewart interrupts Yousry and she touches his hand and she 8 starts talking about other things which have nothing to do with 9 with what they are doing. "But if that happens, you have to 10 make allowances. Because I'm making allowances for them 11 looking in at us and seeing me never speaking and writing away 12 here while you talk Arabic." Talk about what? Talk about 13 Abdel Rahman's reply to Taha and Sattar. And Yousry 14 translates. He says: "She is trying to interfere. Not to 15 interrupt your stream of thought, but because you understand." 16 17 Well, you understand because you know that they are 18 covering it up because they are talking about Abdel Rahman's 19 response to Taha and Sattar withdrawing support for the 20 ceasefire. And Lynne Stewart says: "Talk back to me now 21 because otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Yousry says: She 22 is asking me, to Abdel Rahman, to talk to her now. And Lynne 23 Stewart says: "Say something in English. And Yousry says: "I 24 love you." Right. Legal business. 25 What's happening then? Abdel Rahman dictating a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12105 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 letter to Sattar, which includes his response to the ceasefire 2 and they are covering it up. Government Exhibit 1710X at 53. 3 This is the end of the letter in which Abdel Rahman withdraws 4 the support for the ceasefire. He just finished dictating his 5 message saying "what's the use of the initiative" and "give Abu 6 Yasir" -- that's Taha -- "give Taha his natural right as the 7 head of the group and don't silence Taha." 8 And later this message, this letter, which is 9 initially discussed as a letter to al-Zayyat, is incorporated 10 into a letter to Taha. That happens at 1711X at 31-32. This 11 is a letter to Taha through Sattar. At this very point, when 12 Abdel Rahman says, what's the use of the initiative, give Taha 13 his natural right as the head of the group, Lynne Stewart cuts 14 in and says: "Talk to me about whatever problem there might be 15 just for the sake about talking about something. Why does she 16 do it there? Because they are terrorist communications and 17 they know that they are not supposed to be doing it. 18 Government Exhibit 1711X, pages 13 and 14, they are 19 back to talking about the Nabil Elmasry watch. Do they cover 20 that up? You know the answer to that. Of course not. Then 21 1711X, pages 30 to 31, Mohammed Yousry whispers. He says: 22 Taha wants to get your support to end the ceasefire. He says: 23 "Are you going to send something to Abu Yasir himself?" Ahmed 24 wants you to answer him, to send a reply to Abu Yasir himself. 25 And Abdel Rahman says: What does Abu Yasir want? Yousry SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12106 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 whispers: Abu Yasir is asking. He wants your approval that he 2 can escalate in the media, try to rearrange the thinking of the 3 initiative completely. 4 As long as the government is escalating, he doesn't 5 want to give up. Yousry whispers. Why? What's happening 6 here? Mohammed Yousry is making sure that Abdel Rahman 7 responds to Taha's request to support him in withdrawing his 8 support for the ceasefire and ending it. Mohammed Yousry knows 9 the visit is about to end and he wants to make sure because 10 Sattar told him he had to -- Sattar, not a lawyer, told him he 11 had to make sure that you get Abdel Rahman's message back to 12 Taha about the withdrawal of support for the ceasefire. And 13 Mohammed Yousry makes sure of it and he just told Abdel Rahman 14 that he needs to reply directly to Taha to help him rearrange 15 the thinking of the ceasefire completely. And you know that 16 Mohammed Yousry knows when a guy like Taha says something like 17 that, you know what that means, and he knew what it meant, and 18 they cover it up. 19 1711X, pages 31 to 32. To reply to Taha Abdel Rahman 20 asks, please, repeat to me Sattar's letter. And Yousry says: 21 I can't do that. We left it in the car. There is no evidence 22 of any other piece of evidence in this case being left in the 23 car in a visit. They got away with bringing Sattar's letter in 24 there the first day. And it is the only thing they leave in 25 there the next day. It is the letter asking for withdrawal of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12107 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 support for the ceasefire and they leave it in the car because 2 they got away with it before. Why take the chance again? 3 Covering noise. 4 Now 1711X, pages 44 to 45. Mohammed Yousry gets up 5 and he goes to the bathroom. And he comes back from the 6 bathroom and he says: I was nice to the guard because "this 7 will keep her off my back for a while. She doesn't look at the 8 glass." And Lynne Stewart says: "I wonder if she can hear 9 anything from outside." And Yousry says: "Not outside. But 10 you hear everything when you're in the bathroom. You hear 11 everything. And Lynne Stewart says: "We will have to keep an 12 eye of who is in there. Well, is there a recorder in there?" 13 Mohammed Yousry says: No. I am sure of it. Typical 14 interpreter behavior. Sweeping the bathroom for bugs. 15 Let's talk about the July 2001 visit and I am going to 16 do it more quickly because I think you get the picture. 17 (Recording played) 18 MR. BARKOW: I am just doing covering noises. I am 19 just making covering noises. 20 Government Exhibit 1716X, page 35, Abdel Rahman says 21 to Yousry about something else: I want that letter that you 22 read me. I want it shred. But Mohammed Yousry says: No, not 23 until we leave. We can't leave the evidence here. 24 1716X, at pages 43, 46 to 49, 50 to 51, they are 25 talking about Abdel Rahman's sentencing and his conditions. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12108 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 Sounds like something that might arguably be called a legal 2 plan. Are they covering that up? You know the answer to that. 3 Of course not. 1716X, pages 69 to 71 they are talking about 4 the conditions suit that Lynne Stewart never filed. Are they 5 covering that up? You know the answer to that. Of course not. 6 But then Government Exhibit 1716X, pages 74 to 75, 7 Yousry starts whispering again, talking in a lower voice. Why? 8 What's he talking about? The bombing of the U.S.S. Cole. 9 Government Exhibit 1716X, page 75, pages 83 to 86, 10 they are talking about Pat Fitzgerald and maybe filing a 11 lawsuit about the SAMs which was never filed. Do they cover 12 that up? Of course not. 13 1716X, pages 87 to 95, they talk intermittently about 14 filing a conditions lawsuit which was never filed. Do they 15 cover that up? You know the answer to that, too. No. 16 But then at 1717X, pages 11 to 14, they are talking 17 about the Cole again, telling Abdel Rahman that somebody called 18 Sattar and said the Cole bombing was done for Abdel Rahman. 19 And Lynne Stewart says: As you just saw, right when they get 20 to that point, I am just doing covering noises. She knocks 21 onto the table, she shakes a bottle of water and says, I am 22 just doing covering noises. Why now? Because the Cole bombing 23 being done for Abdel Rahman. Whether it is true or not, it 24 doesn't matter, but telling Abdel Rahman about it. That is 25 about terrorism and violence and that is something that needs SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12109 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 to be covered up. Not because they didn't want to get 2 interrupted. 3 1720X, pages 5 and 6 and 11, they are talking about 4 sending tapes into Abdel Rahman and the lawsuit. No covering 5 noises. I guess it didn't matter if that was interrupted 6 either. 1720X, page 22, Lynne Stewart says: Abdel Rahman 7 wants to reply to yesterday's letters? Yesterday's letters 8 included the letter from Mohammed Abdel Rahman, Asadallah, the 9 guy who was on the tape with Taha in September 2000 and 10 Mohammed Yousry says, in a lower voice again, I ripped them up 11 in the bathroom. 12 Now, February 2000, Mohammed Yousry claimed when he 13 testified that all the lawyers did this. They all did it. He 14 said Ramsey Clark did it the least, Lynne Stewart did it the 15 most, and Abdeen Jabara, he was somewhere in the middle. The 16 February 2000 visit, Abdeen Jabara is there. There is a 17 transcript of one of those days in evidence. There is not a 18 single instance of covering noise in that entire visit. The 19 bottom line on covering noises, Lynne Stewart and Mohammed 20 Yousry just do it when they are talking about terrorism, about 21 violence, about terrorists. They just do it when they are 22 relaying terrorist information which is the term in the SAMs 23 that is said to be prohibited. They just do it when they know 24 they are committing a crime. But they were caught red-handed 25 on tape, on video, and on audio, and they are trying to create SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12110 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 a new covering noise here to get out of it. 2 Now, Mr. Stern talked and said: "Something really 3 kind of frightening happens in this case." He says that we 4 argue that Mohammed Yousry believed in terrorist violence 5 because of the books he possessed. And he told you to be 6 careful. Get rid of your copies of Mark Twain, T.S. Elliott, 7 Ernest Hemingway, and the Da Vinci Code because the government 8 might come after you because of your beliefs. 9 Let's get a few things straight here right away. We 10 are not arguing and we have never argued in this case, with 11 respect to any defendant in this case that the mere possession 12 of books shows one's beliefs, not once, and I am not going to 13 argue to it now. And we are not each arguing that Mohammed 14 Yousry believed in terrorist violence. I said that at the 15 beginning. And he doesn't need to to be found guilty of Counts 16 4 or 5. He just needs to know that his material support was 17 being provided to a conspiracy to kill. He just needs to know 18 that. He doesn't need to intend for it to happen. He just 19 needs to know it. Judge Koeltl will instruct you about the 20 elements. It is one for the other, not both. One for the 21 other. 22 And we did not introduce a single book, full book into 23 evidence from Mohammed Yousry's house. We just introduced one 24 chapter from one book about the history of the Islamic Group to 25 show some of what Mohammed Yousry knew about the Islamic Group, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12111 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 because he had read it. And you can be sure that if we didn't 2 put in evidence about what Mohammed Yousry knew about the 3 Islamic Group, that his lawyers would have been up here arguing 4 to you at the end of the case that we didn't do it. 5 This argument about books is an attempt to scare you 6 and distract you, because the message is not get rid of your 7 books or don't read books. Keep your books and read whatever 8 you want. The message is, don't relay messages from terrorists 9 like Taha to Abdel Rahman and back out into the world. And if 10 Mohammed Yousry hadn't done that, he wouldn't be here. And 11 Mr. Stern also says that there has been a lot of talk about 12 newspapers. And he spent about 20 minutes talking about them. 13 And Mr. Dember argued and nobody from the government has ever 14 argued, not once, that reading newspapers to Abdel Rahman 15 violated the law, and I'm not going to either. 16 So Mr. Stern's talk about newspapers is a distraction. 17 This is not a case about reading newspapers to Abdel Rahman. 18 And if that's all these people did, we probably wouldn't be 19 here. They wouldn't be here. The problem is, when the 20 messages go back out to the newspapers, the problem is when 21 Abdel Rahman's blessing of violence is announced to the media 22 and broadcast and published in the newspapers around the world, 23 that's the problem, not the reading of newspapers to Abdel 24 Rahman. And that's why we are here, because the messages went 25 out to the world. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12112 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 So did we present evidence of the reading of 2 newspapers? Not because it is illegal. It happened in the 3 visit. So it is part of the evidence. And for the same 4 reasons that these defendants read the newspapers to Abdel 5 Rahman, to show you that Abdel Rahman was kept informed and 6 abreast of what was happening in the Middle East and in Egypt. 7 So when Abdel Rahman was asked to support Taha in the end of 8 the ceasefire and Sattar, he would know what was happening in 9 the world and in the Middle East. 10 One of the articles read to Abdel Rahman just before 11 he issues the withdrawal of the support is an article about how 12 the Egyptian government is chasing down and imprisoning youth 13 in Egypt. It kept him up to date and it kept him in a frame of 14 mind that resulted him in issuing a withdrawal of support for 15 the ceasefire. That's why we showed you the newspaper 16 evidence, not because reading newspapers is a crime. 17 Now, none of your business. Mr. Stern played this 18 evidence twice, once in his first day of his summation and once 19 at the beginning of his second day when Abdel Rahman said to 20 Mohammed Yousry that it was none of his business about how the 21 fatwah got out. And he argued to you that that somehow shows 22 that Mohammed Yousry isn't a member of the conspiracy to 23 circumvent the SAMs. 24 This is a distraction. Because, first of all, we are 25 not even arguing that Mohammed Yousry helped relay the fatwah. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12113 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 We are not arguing that any of these defendants helped to relay 2 the fatwah. This meant nothing. These two defendants issued 3 the withdrawal of support for the ceasefire. Sattar was 4 responsible for the fatwah. And so that evidence or that none 5 of your business line about the fatwah means nothing. And 6 Abdel Rahman himself didn't even know how the fatwah got out. 7 He didn't write it. Sattar did with Taha. But Abdel Rahman, 8 as you know, didn't want anyone to disavow the fatwah. And 9 that's why he told Mohammed Yousry to mind his own business 10 because he didn't want to disavow. 11 And the fatwah wasn't relayed as part of the 12 conspiracy to defraud the United States. That's about the 13 withdrawal of support for the ceasefire. So Mohammed Yousry, 14 being told to mind his own business about the fatwah, which 15 isn't part of the conspiracy to defraud, doesn't mean anything 16 about Mohammed Yousry's membership in that conspiracy. And 17 Mr. Stern also argues that because Mohammed Yousry told Sattar 18 on June 15 to stop working on Abdel Rahman's case because he 19 was being accused of being a CIA agent that that somehow shows 20 that Yousry wasn't a member of the conspiracy to circumvent the 21 SAMs. 22 Well, it was a little late because two days -- this 23 happened two days after the withdrawal of support for the 24 ceasefire was issued on June 13 and after the message of 25 violence has been unleashed. And in any event, one week later, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12114 51AMSAT6 Rebuttal 1 June 20 and June 21, when Lynne Stewart gets the second press 2 release, Abdel Rahman's reaffirmation that he withdraw his 3 support for the ceasefire, Mohammed Yousry is right there with 4 her and does it again. Do you think it is the first time that 5 a coconspirator has told another that he should consider moving 6 on with his life or doing something else when times get tough? 7 Because he keeps going anyway? How does that line go? Just 8 when I think I'm out of it they keep pulling me back in. 9 (Continued on next page) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12115 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 MR. BARKOW: Now, Mr. Stern says that Mohammed Yousry 2 never called anyone in Egypt. That wasn't Mohammed Yousry's 3 job, it was Sattar's job and Sattar did it well. 4 And Mr. Stern told me to ask you when I got up here to 5 show you one time when Mr. Yousry called up a reporter from the 6 media and communicated a message to the press. I'm not going 7 to make you ask me that question but I'm going to answer his. 8 That wasn't Mohammed Yousry's job. That wasn't his role. Even 9 though he did do it one time with Mr. Noguchi, Mohammed Yousry, 10 Exhibit 1704X, he spoke directly to the media but that wasn't 11 Mohammed Yousry' job to call the media, that was Lynne 12 Stewart's job and she did it well. 13 Mohammed Yousry had the same problem as Sattar. 14 Nobody cared what Mohammed Yousry had to say and nobody would 15 pay attention to what Mohammed Yousry had to say. It needed 16 the credibility of a lawyer doing it. 17 Mohammed Yousry's job was carrying the messages back 18 and forth and making sure that Sattar and Taha could 19 communicate with Abdel Rahman and that Lynne Stewart could get 20 Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of support for the cease-fire and 21 relay it to the media. And he did that and he did it with 22 great relish and he made sure he did it right. 23 Remember, I'm not going it read it all to you again 24 but the May 2000 visit, almost over, 1711X, at 30 and 31, 25 Yousry makes sure that Abdel Rahman answers Taha when he SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12116 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 whispers to him, you are going to send something to Abu Yasir, 2 Ahmed wants you to answer him, send a reply to Ahmed himself. 3 He is asking for your thinking to rearrange the thinking of 4 initiative completely. 5 He wants to make sure that Abu Yasir answered Ahmed 6 and Sattar and he told Abdel Rahman that it had to happen. And 7 Mohammed Yousry gave Lynne Stewart the message and Lynne 8 Stewart gave it to the world and they each played their part. 9 But, Mohammed Yousry doesn't have to have the job of 10 being a front man to the media to be found guilty because Judge 11 Koeltl will instruct you that a defendant's guilt is not 12 measured by the extent of his or her participation. Some 13 people play major roles, other people play minor roles, 14 co-conspirators don't have to play equal roles, and a single 15 act can be sufficient to make a defendant guilty of a 16 conspiracy. Mohammed Yousry knew his role and he played it. 17 And without Mohammed Yousry, it never could have happened. 18 Now, Mohammed Yousry is also charged in Counts Four 19 and Five with providing material support and conspiring to 20 provide material support to a conspiracy to kill. And Judge 21 Koeltl will instruct that you Mohammed Yousry, to be found 22 guilty of this, does not need to both know and intend that his 23 material support is being provided to the conspiracy to kill. 24 It's one or the other. 25 And this is important because we are not claiming to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12117 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 you, as I said at the beginning of my argument about Mohammed 2 Yousry, that Mohammed Yousry believed in violence to achieve 3 some goal or intended to cause some violence. He stands alone 4 among these two defendants in that way. But that doesn't mean 5 that the government needs to prove both. The government only 6 needs to prove one or the other, knowledge that the material 7 support is going to the conspiracy to murder, or the intent to 8 provide it to the conspiracy to murder. 9 And Mohammed Yousry knew that his material support 10 that he was providing in the form of Abdel Rahman's withdrawal 11 of support for the cease-fire was being used to prepare for or 12 carry out a conspiracy to kill and that is enough to convict 13 him on Counts Four and Five because Mohammed Yousry may have 14 known more about the Islamic Group and Abdel Rahman and Taha 15 and the violence wrought by them and that they were capable of 16 doing than any person in the world because he was an expert 17 about it. 18 The bottom line is, Mohammed Yousry knew what it meant 19 to relay an opinion by Abdel Rahman to Taha and members of the 20 Islamic Group that said Abdel Rahman didn't support the 21 cease-fire. He knew what the Islamic Group had done before the 22 cease-fire. He knew what came before it. He knew about Luxor, 23 he knew the role and the power of Abdel Rahman in the Islamic 24 Group. He knew about the split in the Islamic Group, about the 25 cease-fire with some people being in favor of the cease-fire SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12118 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 and other people being opposed to it, that splinter group with 2 Taha opposed to the cease-fire. 3 He knew all he needed to know about Taha and that he 4 was the leader of the splinter group and that he was appointed 5 the leader of -- the ground leader of the Islamic Group by 6 Abdel Rahman, that he trained the military wing of the Islamic 7 Group in Afghanistan, that he signed a Fatwah in 1998 with 8 Osama Bin Laden and that he was against the cease-fire. 9 He knew all of those things but he still helped issue, 10 and issued, and relayed Abdel Rahman's blessing, Abdel Rahman's 11 withdrawal of support for the cease-fire. 12 Mr. Stern asked you, what was Mohammed Yousry supposed 13 to do, say no to the lawyers? Mr. Stern asked you, should 14 Mohammed Yousry have asked, quote, about every question the 15 lawyer asks, explain why you were asking that? How does that 16 go to his representation? Or to Abu Ahmed's representation, is 17 this allowed with the SAMs? Should he have asked that with 18 respect to every question? No, not every question. 19 But how about one, how about the question from Taha, a 20 terrorist asking Abdel Rahman to withdraw his support for the 21 cease-fire. How about that one? 22 Mr. Stern says, Yousry wouldn't be able to continue 23 functioning as an interpreter if he did that, if he kept 24 questioning the lawyers. 25 Remember another interpreter that you heard from, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12119 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 Nabil Banout, Mr. Stern read part of his testimony but he left 2 this part out, the transcript page 3637 to 3738, question, this 3 was from me, 4 "Q If someone asked to you translate something where 5 they were asking someone else to go commit a crime with them, 6 what would you have done? 7 "A I'd refrain. I'd never do that." 8 Mr. Stern asked you, should Mohammed Yousry have said 9 I, Mohammed Yousry, the nonlawyer, will decide if I should read 10 this or not? Does Mr. Dember mean that Mohammed Yousry should 11 say, I'm making independent decision about how the lawyers 12 intend to use the information and therefore I will decide what 13 I ask or what I want? And about this Mr. Stern says, 14 impossible. His job is to interpret and that's what he did. 15 Impossible? Actually, it's quite easy. Mohammed 16 Yousry didn't even need to know the SAMs existed, even though 17 he did, to know that he should not be relaying a message from a 18 terrorist like Taha to another terrorist like Abdel Rahman 19 asking whether it's okay to start killing people again. 20 Mohammed Yousry doesn't even need to know the SAMs 21 exist, even though he did, and he doesn't need to know anything 22 about them to know that that's wrong, that that's unlawful, and 23 that that's a crime. 24 It's not impossible, it's quite simple. 25 Mr. Stern says you can't expect Mohammed Yousry to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12120 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 question or say no to lawyers all the time. How about one 2 time? How about just one time? How about when he was asked to 3 get Abdel Rahman's blessing for the return to violence? How 4 about that one time? 5 Now, let's talk about Lynne Stewart. 6 (Recording played) 7 MR. BARKOW: Well, I have a different position. My 8 position is, he's going to get his message out no matter what. 9 I have a different position. My position is he's 10 going to get his message out no matter what. 11 No matter what. No matter what violence Rahman 12 preached or sanctioned or solicited; no matter what violence 13 the Islamic Group had done in the past and no matter what or 14 how many tourists the Islamic Group had killed in the past. No 15 matter what the SAMs said, no matter what Lynne Stewart said in 16 her affirmation. No matter what Lynne Stewart promised, 17 affirmed and took an oath to do, page 7717 of her testimony. 18 No matter who might get that message to whom the 19 message was provided and no matter what they might do with that 20 message. No matter what someone, the Islamic Group might do in 21 reaction to Abdel Rahman's message. No matter what she had to 22 do to conceal what she was doing and the message getting in and 23 the message getting out. No matter what the risk and no matter 24 what crazy story like the bubble or the space that she wants 25 you to believe that she lived in that she would have to concoct SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12121 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 later if she got caught. 2 Lynne Stewart was going to get Abdel Rahman's message 3 out no matter what. 4 MR. TIGAR: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, it's always your 6 recollection of the evidence that controls. The lawyers submit 7 to you what they submit the evidence shows or has not shown and 8 it is your recollection of the evidence and, as I have told you 9 before, you are to decide the case based upon the evidence or 10 lack of evidence and my instructions on the law, coolly, 11 calmly, without emotion, and with fairness to all parties. 12 Go ahead. 13 MR. BARKOW: Lynne Stewart was going to get Abdel 14 Rahman's message out no matter what. 15 MR. TIGAR: Object, your Honor, and move to strike it. 16 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, this is a quote from a 17 transcript. 18 THE COURT: All right, we will take it up at the 19 break. 20 As always, ladies and gentlemen, it's your 21 recollection of the evidence and your recollection that 22 controls. And if you ever have any questions about what the 23 evidence in the record is, as I will tell you, you have the 24 right to ask for any exhibits in the course of your 25 deliberations and you also have the right to have any SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12122 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 testimony. And I will also tell you that I'm not suggesting 2 that you must or should do that, I'm just telling you you have 3 the right to do that. As always, it is your recollection of 4 the evidence that controls. 5 MR. BARKOW: May I proceed, your Honor? 6 THE COURT: Yes. 7 MR. BARKOW: Ms. Griffith? 8 My position is, yes, he's going to get his message out 9 no matter what. 10 My position is, yes, he's going to get his message out 11 no matter what. 12 Let me get one thing straight here right away. This 13 is what Lynne Stewart did. She received a copy of the SAMs, 14 Government Exhibit 6, the same ones she received over and over 15 and they say, quote, communication with the news media, 16 paragraph 9, the inmate shall not be permitted to communicate 17 with any member or representative of the news media through his 18 attorneys or otherwise. 19 She signed Government Exhibit 7, her affirmation. 20 Quote, I understand the restrictions contained in the SAMs and 21 agree to abide by its terms. Quote, nor shall I use my 22 meetings to pass messages between third parties including but 23 not limited to the media and Abdel Rahman. 24 She got those and she signed that and then she visited 25 Abdel Rahman who she knew was a convicted terrorist leader of a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12123 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 violent terrorist group that she knew had killed people. And 2 she knew that he was still influential with the Islamic Group 3 even after having been sentenced and cut off from direct 4 contact. Transcript 8129 to 8130, thus, she knew that his 5 influence had to be in his words. 6 She brought in a request from Rifa'i Taha in her note 7 pad, the letter from Sattar was in Lynne Stewart's note pad, 8 asking Abdel Rahman to sanction the cancellation of the 9 cease-fire and a return to violence. She was caught red-handed 10 on tape covering up conversations about terrorism and nothing 11 else. 12 And then she came out and she told the world, 13 including the Islamic Group and Taha out there, quote, he is 14 withdrawing his support for the cease-fire that currently 15 exists, end quote. 16 Then she called Lisa Sattar and she confessed to her 17 that she had done wrong because she couldn't keep it from Pat 18 Fitzgerald but that it works for her to break the law because 19 she disagrees with the law and elevates her personal choices 20 above the law. 21 Then she learned about all the havoc that she had 22 caused within the Islamic Group by her withdrawal of support 23 for the cease-fire and how Taha, by name, Abu Yasir and Salah, 24 by name, had taken her relay of Abdel Rahman's withdrawal of 25 support for the cease-fire as a return to violence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12124 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 What did she do then? Armed with that knowledge she 2 did it again. She released the re-affirmation on June 21st, 3 it's Government Exhibit 2663, and it says, quote, everything in 4 the previous statement is correct and indeed I said those 5 things. 6 And it says, quote, any statement that comes from her 7 and that she confirms is from me should be taken as I said it. 8 And in a line that Mr. Tigar omitted from his 9 summation, quote, I do withdraw my support for the initiative. 10 And no matter what else I say and no matter what else 11 anyone else said in this case, keep those events in mind 12 because they show you that she's guilty of defrauding the 13 United States, of providing material support to a conspiracy to 14 kill, of conspiring to provide material support to a conspiracy 15 to kill and of concealing material support and conspiring to 16 conceal material support to a conspiracy to kill out of making 17 false statements twice. 18 Your Honor, may we break here? 19 THE COURT: Yes. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it 20 is almost 4:00, we will break for the day. 21 Ladies and gentlemen, please, please remember my 22 continuing instructions. Please don't talk about this case at 23 all -- don't talk about the case at all, among yourselves or 24 with anyone when you go home. Don't talk about it when you 25 return tomorrow. Please don't look at or listen to anything to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12125 51A5SAT7 Rebuttal Summation - Mr. Barkow 1 do with the case. If you should see or hear something 2 inadvertently, please simply turn away. 3 Always remember to keep an open mind until I have 4 finally instructed you on the law and you have gone to the jury 5 room to begin your deliberations. Fairness and justice to the 6 parties requires that you do that, all right? 7 Have a very good evening and I look forward to seeing 8 you tomorrow morning. 9 All rise, please. Follow Mr. Fletcher to the jury 10 room. 11 (Continued on next page) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12126 51A5SAT7 1 (Jury not present) 2 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. 3 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, I did not want to make a 4 speaking objection in the presence of the jury. 5 The quotation that Mr. Barkow gave to the jury is 6 indeed in a transcript of the 11th of October, 2000, and it is 7 the Sheikh is going to get his message out no matter what. 8 He showed it four times to the jury, three of them 9 after I had made my first objection and two of them after I 10 made my second one. And he said, Lynne Stewart was going to 11 get Abdel Rahman's message out no matter what. 12 Now, what's wrong with that, your Honor, is that that 13 conversation took place, that statement was made on the 11th of 14 October. It didn't have anything to do with Lynne Stewart 15 getting a message out, it had to do with a message purportedly 16 by Sheikh Abdel Rahman getting out. And counsel knew it. He 17 was hyping evidence that was clearly irrelevant and he did that 18 after he already candidly told the jury that the Fatwah was not 19 relayed as a part of the conspiracy to defraud. 20 He said that to this jury. 21 Now, of course we will make a motion to strike 22 paragraphs 30 W, X and Y of the indictment because it is 23 alleged as an overt act in support of Count One, but counsel 24 knows that that statement was not made, cannot be, even by the 25 wildest stretch of imagination, be construed as an admission by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12127 51A5SAT7 1 Lynne Stewart that she is going to get a statement by Abdel 2 Rahman out no matter what. I submit that it surpasses the 3 permissible bounds of inference and that was the basis for my 4 objection. 5 And I particularly object to Mr. Barkow, rather than 6 taking what I would think is the proper way to inquire about 7 what the basis is, move on to something else, resolutely 8 repeating it over and over again to drive home the point. 9 That was the basis of my objection. 10 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, it was the beginning of my 11 summation and Mr. Tigar has been a lawyer for a very long time 12 and knows that I have a point that I'm trying to make at the 13 beginning of a summation. That evidence is evidence of Lynne 14 Stewart's intent that the evidence shows, all of the evidence 15 shows that she believed that his message would get out no 16 matter what and that it should and all of the evidence in the 17 case, under the government's theory, points in that direction. 18 And if we're not allowed to argue that then, that that 19 is her intent, that she would get the message out despite what 20 the rules and the SAMs and the affirmations said. It was 21 barely even an inference, it was a statement of her intent 22 about messages getting out, what she thought were messages 23 getting out or might be messages getting out from him and she 24 said, at the time contemporaneously, his message is going to 25 get out no matter what. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12128 51A5SAT7 1 So, I was using it as evidence of intent the way I 2 argued it was evidence of intent. The reason that I continued 3 saying it when Mr. Tigar was making his objection is quite -- 4 quite frankly, I thought the objection was frivolous and I 5 quoted the transcript and the call exactly. And if the jury 6 finds that I misstated what the evidence is then that will 7 renown to my detriment but I read it, we played it, they had 8 just heard it and the difference, any difference between what I 9 said and what she said is for the jury to decide. This is 10 evidence of her intent and it is powerful evidence of her 11 intent. 12 So, I think that there is no problem to argue that 13 that is her state of mind, that she will get the evidence out 14 regardless of what the SAMs and the affirmations say. That's 15 the government's theory in the case. 16 Now, with respect to the statement about the Fatwah 17 not being part of the SAMs, I believe that I made clear that 18 that statement with respect to Ms. Stewart and Mr. Yousry, it's 19 alleged as an overt act in Count One because with respect to 20 Sattar, it is an overt act on the SAMs conspiracy because his 21 intent, the evidence shows, was to get Abdel Rahman to sanction 22 it and bless it after the fact. I didn't argue it in my 23 summation but the evidence is there in the record for that and 24 it is proper for it to be in the indictment. 25 And so, for those reasons, your Honor, I think that it SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12129 51A5SAT7 1 is proper for me, when objected to, particularly at the 2 beginning of my summation with respect to Ms. Stewart when 3 confronted with an objection, to go back to the evidence and 4 tie my comments directly to the evidence because otherwise I 5 can't continue through my summation without being interrupted 6 at any time that Mr. Tigar wants to interrupt me for whatever 7 reason divining the basis of his objection. 8 Obviously, if the Court had sustained the objection I 9 would have stopped but I failed to see the basis for the 10 objection and all I did was quote what Ms. Stewart had just 11 said in the call that I had just played. 12 THE COURT: All right, the objection is overruled but 13 make it clear tomorrow morning when that comment was made. 14 The basis for the objection was not clear to me and I 15 thought initially that it was because there was in fact no, 16 that counsel was misstating what the transcript reflected had 17 been said and so I made a long explanation to the jury which 18 would, fairly explained what the law is to the jury -- and it 19 is, the transcript is what it is and the inferences are what 20 they are, and if any issue is resolved by making it clear when 21 that statement was made, what the date of the transcript is and 22 what the context was. 23 MR. BARKOW: I will do that, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Mr. Tigar. 25 MR. TIGAR: If your Honor, please, I think that I did SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12130 51A5SAT7 1 not think I could make an objection that went further than the 2 one I did because I didn't want to make a speaking objection. 3 THE COURT: No, I appreciate that. 4 MR. BARKOW: Then Mr. Barkow said, that's what the 5 transcript says. 6 Well, Lynne Stewart was going to get the message out 7 is not what the transcript says. It isn't simply a question of 8 date. This is one of these cases in which we happen to think 9 it is very important who is doing what and who said what. And 10 the proposed correction doesn't do it because what counsel told 11 this jury was he first puts up the Sheikh is going to get his 12 message out no matter what and then turns to the jury and says: 13 Lynne Stewart is going to get the message out no matter what. 14 That is simply not correct. 15 THE COURT: It was our view in the context then of 16 what Ms. Stewart did herself in terms of the press release. 17 MR. TIGAR: That's right, what is the whole -- 18 THE COURT: And -- 19 MR. TIGAR: But she didn't do anything. In October, 20 your Honor, she didn't do anything. 21 I admit they've got other evidence, but, you know, I 22 submit they have a duty, they being prosecutors in a rebuttal 23 summation, to call things by their proper name. And therefore 24 I ask the Court to direct Mr. Barkow to say all she said was 25 the Sheikh's going to get his message out no matter what and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12131 51A5SAT7 1 the government does not want you to draw an inference that she 2 was saying that she was going to get it out because she didn't 3 and they're the ones that kept her from seeing him in the first 4 place. 5 THE COURT: Oh. It is sufficient for the 6 government -- and the government can talk more about this -- 7 but it is sufficient at this point that the government make it 8 clear at the beginning of the summation that the comment in the 9 transcript that was shown was a comment that was made in 10 October 2000 and the comment is what it is and it was made, at 11 that point, if the parties wish, in the context of the Fatwah. 12 MR. BARKOW: I will do that, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Do you want the additional instruction 14 that it was in the context of -- 15 MR. TIGAR: May I have a moment, your Honor? 16 No, your Honor, we would prefer that the Fatwah not be 17 mentioned. 18 THE COURT: All right. So, at the beginning tomorrow, 19 just make it clear that the transcript was from October 2000. 20 MR. BARKOW: Sorry, your Honor, I don't want to run 21 afoul of what the Court says. I heard Mr. Tigar saying they 22 don't want the Fatwah mentioned. 23 THE COURT: Right. In the context -- I mean this 24 issue arises from the introduction of the transcript and then 25 speaking about the prison visit. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12132 51A5SAT7 1 MR. BARKOW: Right. 2 THE COURT: So, the purpose of the instruction or the 3 clarification by the government is just to make it clear to the 4 jury while it is fresh in their minds that the transcript that 5 they saw, that quote about getting the message out was in 6 October of 2000. 7 MR. BARKOW: What I propose to say, if I may just 8 mention it to the Court now, is that when I made reference to 9 that statement at the beginning of my summation, that that 10 comment by Ms. Stewart was made in October 2000. It was her 11 reaction when she heard about the Fatwah which she is not 12 charged with relaying and which the allegations against her do 13 not involve her, an allegation that she related. The reason I 14 said it is because we submit to you that it is evidence of her 15 intent throughout. 16 So, I can explain what I am not saying and what I am 17 saying and why I used it. If that's not permissible I will 18 just say the date but I would like to say something along those 19 lines. And I will make very clear, as I did in the argument 20 about Mr. Yousry, that the government is not alleging that 21 Lynne Stewart or Mohammed Yousry had anything to do with 22 getting the Fatwah out, as I just said. 23 So, I propose to say something like that. So I could 24 state affirmatively why I'm saying -- 25 THE COURT: Yes? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12133 51A5SAT7 1 MR. TIGAR: Given the Court's ruling on my objection 2 and within the scope of that, that proposal sounds just fine. 3 THE COURT: Fine. 4 MR. TIGAR: I'm expressing myself carefully for 5 reasons that I think the Court understands. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 MR. TIGAR: And I appreciate the fact that Mr. Barkow 8 knows that I have been doing this for a long time. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 Can I have an estimate? 11 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I would hope to be done in 12 two hours. 13 MR. PAUL: Sorry? 14 MR. BARKOW: Two hours. 15 I would hope to be done in less but I'm trying to give 16 what I consider to be a, just so that if I started at 9:30 17 sharp I would hope to be done by 11:30. I don't know what 18 time, I don't even know what the schedule is for tomorrow. I 19 don't know what time the Court would need to start the 20 instruction in order to get it in, but I think that I will 21 probably be getting close to 11:30 so it might be difficult, 22 but I don't know for sure. 23 The argument about Mr. Sattar took longer than I 24 thought. The argument for Mr. Yousry I'm not sure how long it 25 took so my estimates are not quite exactly on. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12134 51A5SAT7 1 THE COURT: Well, I will be prepared to charge 2 tomorrow. I would like not to break the charge up with lunch. 3 We could go to an early lunch and if I had enough time to 4 charge after lunch that would be all right. If it is such that 5 I can't charge tomorrow, then I will do it first thing on 6 Wednesday. 7 And I certainly don't want to rush the charge. I want 8 to be prepared. And I will certainly consult with all of you 9 on that. 10 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, with respect to the charge, we 11 of course did make our requests and if the Court would accept 12 that there were many legal issues as to which we requested 13 charges but those requests were precluded by the Court's 14 pretrial rulings which were law of the case; and I think as I 15 look at it now I have to look at my notes, the only thing that, 16 as to which I would want to make up a record objection other 17 than what I have just said would be under the nowhere intended. 18 I'm not asking for an advisory opinion from the Court 19 but I don't want to be in a position of taking up time that's 20 unnecessary at that moment after the Court finishes talking to 21 the jury. 22 THE COURT: Usually when I talk to the lawyers after I 23 instruct that conference is not very long. The lawyers point 24 out to me if I inadvertently misread something or left out a 25 word or what not and I talk about the written charge that's SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 12135 51A5SAT7 1 going to go to the jury. But we've had a charge conference and 2 I've ruled so I don't think that's going to take -- I really 3 don't think that that's going to take very long. 4 MR. TIGAR: Thank you, your Honor. I am guided by 5 what your Honor has said. I appreciate it. 6 THE COURT: Let me also ask the government -- I'm 7 sorry, the law enforcement techniques. 8 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, I realized I neglected to 9 follow through on my promise to the Court that I would advise 10 the Court on Friday. In light of some of the arguments that 11 were made by defense counsel in summation, we do ask the Court 12 to give the proposed instruction on investigative techniques. 13 THE COURT: All right. 14 Okay, do the parties have something else for me? 15 Okay, see you all tomorrow morning at 9:15. 16 (adjourned to 9:15 a.m., Tuesday, January 11, 2004.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300