5287 497JSAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 September 7, 2004 8 10:25 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 and a jury 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY, 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER, 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO, 17 ANTHONY BARKOW, 17 ANDREW DEMBER, 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL, 19 BARRY M. FALLICK, 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR, 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE, 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID STERN, 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE, 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5288 497JSAT1 1 (Trial resumes) 2 (In open court; jury not present) 3 THE COURT: Good morning, all. Please be seated. 4 We are beginning somewhat late this morning. The 5 marshals forthrightly said that they were responsible for the 6 delay. I had on my agenda the issue of the limiting 7 instructions for the recordings; 8 Second, the request for a limiting instruction with 9 respect to Government Exhibit 538 and Osama Bin Laden; 10 Third, Government Exhibit 560, the Al-Quaeda article; 11 and 12 Fourth, Ms. Stewart's September 5th letter with 13 respect to a limiting instruction. 14 I am prepared to go over each of these with you now 15 despite the time. I don't know how necessary it is to go over 16 each of these with you at this point, but I'm prepared to do 17 that. 18 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, just to give the court a 19 sense of schedule, the first thing that we would get to that 20 the court listed would be 560, but we have over 60 pages of 21 transcript reading before we get there. I don't know if any of 22 those issues except for perhaps the request for limiting 23 instruction as they relate to calls needs to be addressed 24 before we bring out the jury. 25 THE COURT: Let me do the limiting on the FISA calls. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5289 497JSAT1 1 There was some mixup. I didn't get the package until today. 2 The post-its were saying delivered to me personally Tuesday 3 morning. But, in any event, I went back to the motions in 4 limine, briefs that I have. 5 Also on the lists that were attached, it just wasn't 6 clear to me, and nothing depends on it in terms of the ruling, 7 which recordings there was to be a limiting instruction for. 8 And you can direct me to that list soon, but I am prepared to 9 deal with the issues that were raised. 10 The government has proposed that the court broaden its 11 limiting instruction with respect to certain FISA intercepted 12 calls that the government has previously been offering only as 13 to Counts 2 and 3. The government now proposes that the 14 limiting instruction make it clear that certain future calls 15 which are not alleged to be in furtherance of the Count 1 16 conspiracy can nevertheless be considered in connection with 17 the Count 1 conspiracy because they relate to Mr. Sattar's 18 conduct and state of mind in connection with Count 1 as well as 19 with Counts 2 and 3. 20 Ms. Stewart and Mr. Yousry oppose any broadening of 21 the limiting instruction and I received Mr. Ruhnke's letter. 22 As a preliminary matter, the government points out that the 23 court has given two different limiting instructions. 24 Initially, the court gave an instruction to the effect 25 that four transcripts were being offered with respect to Counts SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5290 497JSAT1 1 2 and 3 of the indictment. Transcript 3683 and 4696. 2 This instruction was correct and was given because the 3 issue raised as to which the limiting instruction was given was 4 the relevance of the transcript to various counts of the 5 indictment. No specific hearsay objection was raised; and, 6 therefore, no limiting instruction as against whom the 7 statements could be received for their truth was given. 8 Following the hearsay objections with respect to 9 co-conspirator statements and given the government's position 10 that certain transcripts reflected only statements made in 11 furtherance of the Count 2 conspiracy. See Transcript 4732, 12 4739. 13 The court gave a more extensive instruction to make it 14 clear that the transcripts subject to the limiting instruction 15 were received subject to connection against Mr. Sattar and 16 could not be considered for the truth of any of the matters 17 asserted against Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry, who were not 18 alleged to be members of the Count 2 conspiracy. Transcript 19 4750, 4752 and 4837. 20 The court asked the defendants whether they wished the 21 court to instruct the jury on the possible permissible uses of 22 the transcript, such as the relevance for Mr. Sattar's acts in 23 connecting the phone calls and using his phone and the effect 24 on his state of mind, and the defendants said they did not want 25 the court to list the permissible uses of the evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5291 497JSAT1 1 Transcript 4746 to 47. 2 That brings us to the government's current proposed 3 instruction. The substance of that instruction appears to 4 differ from the instruction that the court has given in two 5 ways: 6 First, the instruction says that the statements can be 7 used for specific purposes as it relates to Mr. Sattar's 8 conduct and state of mind. This is the instruction that the 9 defendants have previously declined, and I see no reason to 10 explain to the jury the possible evidentiary uses of the 11 evidence rather than its limitations unless the defendants wish 12 me to detail such uses; 13 Second, the instruction also indicates that the 14 conversations can be considered as they relate to Mr. Sattar's 15 conduct and state of mind with respect to Count 1 as well as 16 Counts 2 and 3, although they cannot be used for the truth of 17 any of the matters asserted against Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry. 18 What that means, of course, is that the government 19 does not contend that the statements in the conversation were 20 statements by co-conspirators during and in furtherance of the 21 Count 1 conspiracy. Given that fact, then, the relevance of 22 these conversations to the Count 1 conspiracy is substantially 23 outweighed by the danger of confusion and unfair prejudice. 24 This is particularly true given the number of conversations 25 that are already proffered in furtherance of the Count 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5292 497JSAT1 1 conspiracy. 2 Therefore, the government is correct in its initial 3 request for the instruction. The relevance of these 4 conversations should be limited to Counts 2 and 3, and in no 5 event can the statements in the course of the conversations be 6 considered for the truth of the matters asserted against Ms. 7 Stewart or Mr. Yousry. 8 Therefore, I am prepared to continue to give the 9 instruction that I have given unless the parties explain what 10 the legal defect in the instruction is, or the parties seek a 11 different or more extensive instruction that is consistent with 12 the law. For example, I have offered to the defendants to 13 detail the uses to which these recordings could be put. 14 Hence, the current instruction is: 15 "This transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 16 of the indictment and it is received subject to connection 17 against Mr. Sattar. I've explained to you what 'subject to 18 connection' means. This transcript cannot be considered 19 against Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the 20 matters asserted in the transcript." 21 (Continued on next page) 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5293 497eSAT2 1 THE COURT: That is substantially the instruction 2 which I have been giving. 3 An alternative instruction, I could say this 4 transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the 5 indictment. It cannot be considered against Ms. Stewart or 6 Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters asserted in the 7 transcript. It can be considered against Mr. Sattar for the 8 truth of any of the matters asserted, subject to connection, 9 and I've explained to you what subject to connection means. 10 The substance of both of those instructions is the 11 same, but I'm perfectly happy to listen to the parties as to 12 the -- 13 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, can I just confer with 14 counsel for Mr. Sattar for a moment? 15 THE COURT: Sure. 16 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, the first version is the 17 consensus choice. 18 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government doesn't see 19 much of a difference between the two, so either one is fine 20 with the government. 21 THE COURT: As to the charts, how do I tell which -- 22 MR. MORVILLO: I'm sorry. I was about to address 23 that. 24 I think I provided the Court with three different 25 versions of this, which probably adds to the confusion rather SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5294 497eSAT2 1 than detracts from it, but if the Court were to take the one 2 that is in chronological order, which is what I have in front 3 of me, any -- there's -- the second column is labeled 4 instruction. 5 THE COURT: Yes. Tell me which -- there are three. 6 Two of them begin with 1001X. One begins with 1170X. 7 MR. MORVILLO: The one that begins with 1001X followed 8 by 1253X is the one in chronological order. 9 The second column is labeled instruction. Any call 10 with an X next to it in that column is one with respect to 11 which the government believes the limiting instruction is 12 appropriate. 13 Your Honor, with respect to the package, I attempted 14 to have it delivered Friday evening, and when that was 15 unsuccessful, I left a note yesterday for it to be delivered 16 this morning, which explains the confusion, but it was 17 certainly our intention to try to get it to you on Friday. 18 THE COURT: I just retrieved mine and I'll make 19 copies. OK. 20 That takes us to the video. I've reviewed the 21 indictment as well as the arguments on the government's motion 22 in limine. The defendants have sought a limiting instruction 23 to the effect that Osama bin Laden is not alleged to be a 24 member of any of the conspiracies charged in this case. Based 25 on the prior arguments, the substance of such an instruction is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5295 497eSAT2 1 warranted. 2 The meeting of Taha and Osama bin Laden and 3 Al-Zawahiri at which Mohammed Abdel Rahman is also heard is 4 alleged to be an overt act in furtherance of the Count 2 5 conspiracy. Indictment, paragraphs 21 and 33A. 6 However, the government in its motion in limine did 7 not argue that either bin Laden or Al-Zawahiri were members of 8 the Count 2 conspiracy. Indeed, the government directed its 9 attention to Taha, and indeed, in its reply brief in a footnote 10 cited by the Court in its ruling in motion in limine noted 11 that, quote, if Taha's statements are deemed admissible as a 12 statement of a coconspirator, the government requests that the 13 Court give a limiting instruction to the jury that such 14 statements are only admissible for their truth against Sattar 15 and not Stewart and Yousry and, further, only in connection 16 with the Count 2 conspiracy -- the conspiracy furthered by the 17 statements. The statements may be otherwise admissible, i.e. 18 not for the truth, against some or all of the defendants, 19 unquote. Government reply brief at 905. 20 If the government were contending that Osama bin Laden 21 as well as Al-Zawahiri were coconspirators in the Count 2 22 conspiracy, the Court would have expected a similar statement 23 in that footnote. Indeed, the arguments were directed to the 24 significance of the meeting to Taha and the significance of the 25 Taha/Sattar conspiracy. See, for example, government brief at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5296 497eSAT2 1 21. Quote, but the fact is that Taha sat with, associated with 2 and made threats with Osama bin Laden. And the evidence will 3 show that Sattar conspired with Taha and that Stewart and 4 Yousry gave material support to the Taha/Sattar conspiracy. 5 Therefore, a limiting instruction is appropriate in 6 accordance with the government's initial suggestion in its 7 reply brief and to ensure that the evidence is not considered 8 for an improper purpose for the jury. 9 I'll certainly listen to the parties for any 10 appropriate limiting instruction, but based on my proposed 11 instructions last week, my review of the transcript of the 12 videotape, my review of the prior briefs and the defense 13 requests, I'd be inclined to give the following instruction, 14 quote: The statements in the videotape and the transcript 15 cannot be considered against Mr. Sattar, Ms. Stewart or 16 Mr. Yousry for the truth of any matters asserted, except that 17 the statements by Mr. Taha are admitted against Mr. Sattar with 18 respect to the Count 2 conspiracy subject to connection for the 19 truth of the matters asserted. 20 In addition, I want to take this opportunity to 21 instruct you that neither Osama bin Laden nor Ayman Al-Zawahiri 22 is alleged to be a member of any of the conspiracies alleged in 23 this case. 24 MR. TIGAR: We would agree with that limiting 25 instruction, your Honor, and request that it be given exactly SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5297 497eSAT2 1 as your Honor has read it. 2 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, obviously the government takes 3 exception to the Court's ruling. You've ruled, we've made our 4 argument. 5 The one thing I would ask is it is the government's 6 view that the Taha statements are in furtherance not just of 7 Count 2, which is explicitly charged as a conspiracy, but also 8 Count 3, which although not charged as a conspiracy essentially 9 involves jointly undertaking conspiratorial activity involving 10 both Sattar and Taha. So we would ask that the instruction 11 that your Honor just read be amended to say Counts 2 and 3. 12 THE COURT: Yes. Yes. Are admitted against 13 Mr. Sattar with respect to Counts 2 and 3, subject to 14 connection for the truth of the matter asserted. 15 I should also add, on review the possible truthful 16 content is quite limited. 17 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, I just wanted to say, we 18 don't abandon our 403 argument about the Osama bin Laden 19 references and the appearance by video of Osama bin Laden. We 20 appreciate your Honor's ruling on the limited purpose of it but 21 do not believe that a jury can ignore the presence of Osama 22 bin Laden and it will prejudice Mr. Yousry. 23 THE COURT: All right. For all of the reasons that I 24 explained in the motion in limine, I rejected that argument. 25 And a review of the videotape and the evidence confirms my view SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5298 497eSAT2 1 that the relevance is not substantially outweighed -- can be 2 outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice for the reasons 3 that I've explained. 4 MR. TIGAR: Because Mr. Ruhnke just said Mr. Yousry, 5 we, too, maintain the view that we took as to which your Honor 6 ruled on June 11th. 7 THE COURT: Right. And as I've -- for all of the 8 reasons I've explained, I've overruled that argument and the 9 proffers also that this was -- this Taha meeting will 10 subsequently be discussed in conversations to which Ms. Stewart 11 is a party. And I referred to that also in -- on the motion 12 in limine. 13 Because the calls may come up with respect to 14 Ms. Stewart's request for a limiting instruction, perhaps I 15 should take that now the matter of the 560. 16 MR. MORVILLO: Just so the record is clear, 17 Ms. Stewart is objecting to every single call left in the case, 18 with the exception of three which she is participating, so I 19 think that's a true statement that we're going to get the calls 20 that relate to this request. 21 THE COURT: All right. First of all, I read the 22 letter. I also got the September 6th letter and, frankly, 23 absent from the letter, unless I missed it -- the letter 24 purports to be a request for a limiting instruction. I looked 25 at it and I couldn't tell unless -- in all of the pages what SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5299 497eSAT2 1 the limiting instruction was that I was being asked to give. 2 Would you direct my attention to the -- 3 MR. TIGAR: I'm sorry, your Honor. The letter is 4 deficient in that respect. And the limiting instruction is 5 that none of these calls is admissible against Ms. Stewart for 6 the truth of any matter asserted in the calls. 7 THE COURT: All right. 8 MR. TIGAR: And that none -- oh, I'm sorry. Paragraph 9 two of the letter, the instructions requested say, none of 10 these alleged acts and declarations is received against 11 Ms. Stewart. 12 As to declarations, that would be not for their truth; 13 and as to acts, not -- it excludes vicarious liability. 14 THE COURT: All right. Well, I've read the letter. 15 The government hasn't had an opportunity to respond. 16 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I could respond briefly 17 orally. 18 THE COURT: All right. 19 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, my comments here go only to 20 those calls that are not marked on Mr. Morvillo's chart, 21 obviously, that we've already stated appropriately should get 22 that instruction. 23 As your Honor I'm sure is aware, the law is clear on 24 what constitutes a withdrawal from a conspiracy. And I'll cite 25 the Geibel case, G-E-I-B-E-L, 369 F.3d 682 at 695 (2d Cir. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5300 497eSAT2 1 2004), where the Court stated that the settled law, which is to 2 withdraw from a conspiracy a person must take some affirmative 3 action, either by making a clean breast to the authorities or 4 communicating the abandonment in some manner reasonably 5 calculated to reach coconspirators. Citing the Jackson case, 6 also Second Circuit 2003 at 335 F.3d 170 page 182. 7 Your Honor, the record shows and will show that there 8 were no steps taken to withdraw from the conspiracy either by 9 making a clean breast to the authorities or communicating the 10 abandonment in any way designed to reach coconspirators. To 11 the contrary, the evidence will show that Ms. Stewart remained 12 a member of the conspiracy charged in Count 1. 13 For example, and not to be exhaustive, there will be a 14 call -- I don't know the exhibit number but there will be a 15 call, and Mr. Morvillo may be able to give that to me -- there 16 will be a call in evidence during which Ms. Stewart is advised 17 of the ghost-written Fatwah being out in the world. And she 18 states in substance that if Sheikh Abdel Rahman is for it, she 19 is for it, too. And more significantly goes on to state Sheikh 20 Abdel Rahman's message is going to get out no matter what. 21 Furthermore, in January of 2001, as alleged in the 22 indictment, there are discussions about the false -- the 23 dissemination of a false message regarding Sheikh Abdel 24 Rahman's medical condition. Those are overt acts in the 25 indictment for Count 1 during which Ms. Stewart states in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5301 497eSAT2 1 substance that it doesn't matter if -- it doesn't matter what 2 the truth is because the people on the outside won't know what 3 the truth is as to Sheikh Abdel Rahman's condition. 4 And finally, as the evidence will show in the 5 July 2001 prison visit, Ms. Stewart undertakes concealing 6 action -- this is alleged in the indictment also -- to cover up 7 the fact that the meetings with Sheikh Abdel Rahman were not 8 for legal purposes but instead were designed in part to bring 9 communications and information in and out in violation of the 10 SAMs. 11 And so for all those reasons we think that the 12 evidence will show and has shown that the conspiracy continued, 13 not that there was a withdrawal, and therefore this instruction 14 is not -- or this requested instruction is not appropriate. 15 And the call to which I referred first where 16 Ms. Stewart says that Sheikh Abdel Rahman's message will get 17 out no matter what is 1193X, which I believe is in evidence. 18 And the second call about the false medical condition 19 is 1220X, which I believe is also in evidence. Oh, they're 20 both in English, though, your Honor, so the actual call is in 21 evidence but there's not a transcript in evidence. 22 THE COURT: Well, actually there's the July -- the 23 request is to exclude calls as to their truth up to July 13th. 24 The July prison visit occurs after that. 25 MR. BARKOW: Yes, your Honor. My point was more that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5302 497eSAT2 1 there is activity at the end that shows continued participation 2 in the conspiracy, which we think from which it can be inferred 3 that there was never a withdrawal, but moreover, there is 4 conduct in the middle that shows continued participation in the 5 conspiracy. 6 THE COURT: And the submission of the May 2001 7 affirmation is alleged to be in furtherance of the conspiracy, 8 which is within the period that I'm asked to exclude calls for 9 the truth? 10 MR. BARKOW: That's correct. 11 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, there's no question 12 Ms. Stewart was engaged in telephone conversations with 13 Mr. Yousry and Mr. Sattar during this period. And we've said 14 that of course those come in because those are her acts. This 15 is not an argument, your Honor, about withdrawal, although the 16 government's statement about the scope of the withdrawal 17 requirement is somewhat broader than the Supreme Court's 18 formulation in United States vs. United States Gypsum, which 19 gives a nonexclusive list and cites Borelli, which is a Second 20 Circuit case. 21 But that's not what it's about. Mr. Fitzgerald, 22 contrary to some of the advice that he was getting, decided to 23 interfere with what people were doing. And it's a fundamental 24 principle of criminal law that people have choices. It's the 25 free will imperative of the intent requirement. And when the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5303 497eSAT2 1 government acts meaningfully and significantly to restrict the 2 kinds of choices that people have, then it's unfair to permit 3 inferences from their conduct, because we don't know how they 4 would have conducted themselves if they were free fully to 5 engage with the others with whom they were involved. 6 And so to pick this statement or that statement out of 7 a context created by Mr. Fitzgerald's action is, it seems to 8 us, at odds with the fundamental principle of conspiracy law. 9 That's the argument. And I can predict what the ruling will be 10 because I've heard what has been said and I'm watching what's 11 going on in the courtroom. 12 But that is our position and we are quite serious 13 about it. 14 THE COURT: I carefully considered the letter, the 15 arguments, the law. The arguments are incorrect on several 16 levels. 17 The arguments are directed toward a limiting 18 instruction which asks the Court to determine now that none of 19 the calls are admissible for the truth of any of the matters 20 asserted. So the Court is being asked to determine that none 21 of the conversations henceforth are coconspirator conversations 22 during and in furtherance of the conspiracy of which both the 23 declarant and the defendant were members. It's 24 well-established in this circuit that those are the kinds of 25 decisions which are made at the conclusion of all of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5304 497eSAT2 1 evidence under Geany and Tracy so that the instruction is 2 simply not correct under the law of the circuit. 3 Second, the arguments do not support that the 4 statements were not -- the proffered statements were not being 5 made during and in furtherance of the conspiracy of which 6 declarant and the defendant were members. The conspiracy is 7 alleged to have continued during this period, and there was no 8 evidence of withdrawal, and defendant says that she is not 9 arguing for withdrawal. 10 The argument then becomes that the government somehow 11 interfered in such a way as to keep the defendant in some way 12 in this conspiracy, which is something else that was improper. 13 There is no basis for that argument, and it would be 14 inconsistent with other cases in the Court of Appeals which 15 deal with situations, such as Salome, where a defendant is 16 actually in prison and continues to be a member of the 17 conspiracy. 18 In this case the defendant is not in prison and is 19 alleged to have furthered the ends of the conspiracy throughout 20 the period, including submitting another affirmation during the 21 period. So an instruction that at this point that none of the 22 calls is admissible against Ms. Stewart for the truth of any of 23 the matters asserted is simply an incorrect instruction on the 24 law. 25 That leads me, though, to the final issue. Having SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5305 497eSAT2 1 been asked for a limiting instruction and fully aware of the 2 law under Geany and Tracy and the Court's obligation to give a 3 limiting instruction, if asked, it would appear to me that the 4 appropriate limiting instruction is that if the defendants 5 wish, and I don't see a reason to distinguish Ms. Stewart from 6 Mr. Yousry, that the subsequent recordings are received subject 7 to connection with respect to the truth of the matters asserted 8 against Ms. Stewart and Mr. Yousry. 9 MR. TIGAR: We do not request that last relief, your 10 Honor. 11 And with respect to your Honor's ruling, of course 12 we'll renew our contention at the Rule 29 moment or at the end 13 of the government's evidence. We did think it was appropriate 14 to give the instruction now and for the reasons that I've 15 stated. 16 I would point out, for it is a sort of preview to that 17 argument, the Salome defendant, who was in jail for six months 18 during the -- prior to the consummation of the alleged plot, 19 did indeed make that argument. The Court didn't say -- the 20 Court of Appeals didn't say in Salome that you could never make 21 it. 22 THE COURT: No. 23 MR. TIGAR: In fact, the Court reiterated what I've 24 called the gypsum Borelli standards about withdrawal. I didn't 25 wish to seem to agree with -- well, I guess -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5306 497eSAT2 1 THE COURT: No, and -- 2 MR. TIGAR: I'm reading the case the same way as your 3 Honor is, I hope. It doesn't preclude us. 4 THE COURT: It doesn't preclude the argument. 5 But the only point I was making was here we have a 6 case where the defendant is not even in prison, and the 7 argument is that somehow the government has interfered. It's 8 difficult to think of a greater interference than placing the 9 defendant in prison. 10 And, you know, Salome was only one of the more recent 11 cases on the issue of imprisonment. And the issue of 12 imprisonment is there by analogy as a stronger case than even 13 this case in the sense of an argument of government 14 interference. 15 But, yes, Salome doesn't say that a defendant can be 16 in prison, cannot withdraw or that that cannot be evidence of 17 withdrawal. 18 MR. TIGAR: Well, in fact, your Honor, we think this 19 case is stronger for us than Salome. Quite the opposite, but 20 we'll wait for a time when that becomes something we can talk 21 about again. 22 THE COURT: OK. 23 MR. TIGAR: Thank you. 24 THE COURT: Mr. Ruhnke? I was going to give that 25 instruction for Mr. Yousry also, but -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5307 497eSAT2 1 MR. RUHNKE: I'm in agreement with what's been said, 2 your Honor. 3 THE COURT: All right. That leaves then the 560. 4 And, I mean, I appreciate Ms. Baker's thoroughness in getting 5 me the letter very early this morning. I've read it, I've read 6 all of the attachments. I haven't listened to the defendants 7 in response to all of the additional materials. And I'm 8 prepared to rule, but I'm perfectly happy to listen to the 9 parties at greater length but... 10 MR. TIGAR: May I have just a moment, your Honor. 11 Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MR. TIGAR: Would it be helpful to the parties to hear 14 your Honor's tentative views? We feel it might be helpful to 15 the parties to hear your Honor's tentative views, if the Court 16 is willing. 17 THE COURT: I'm perfectly prepared to rule. 18 I've read all of the correspondence and I am not 19 prepared to admit Government Exhibit 560T. I will sustain the 20 objection. Indeed, the subsequent letter is in one sense the 21 acknowledgement that the initial transcript doesn't 22 sufficiently authenticate the article, and so the government 23 attempts to give me additional evidence to authenticate the 24 article. 25 The transcript of Government Exhibit 1171X is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5308 497eSAT2 1 insufficient to authenticate the statements in the article as 2 those of Taha. In Government Exhibit 1171X Taha asks Abu Bakr 3 if he gets Al-Hayat or Asharq Al-Awsat. Abu Bakr says he does 4 not get Al-Hayat but does get Asharq Al-Awsat. Taha says, 5 quote, if it is around three to four days, you might find it 6 there. There are things that are related to me, unquote, 7 transcript at page 13. 8 The transcript does not say anything about Taha's 9 comments about what appeared in Al-Hayat, which is Government 10 Exhibit 560T. Even Taha's comment about Asharq Al-Awsat does 11 not vouch for the accuracy to what is attributed to Taha in 12 that article. And Taha does not distribute the article or 13 otherwise adopt it. All that Taha says is that, quote, there 14 are things that are related to me, unquote. The parties have 15 not provided the Court with any comparable authorities where 16 similar proffered authentication evidence was sufficient. 17 Government Exhibit 1169, the Sultan Al-Sirri phone 18 call on September 13, 2000, shows that Taha made a statement 19 about Palestine and threatened Americans and Egyptians. 20 Al-Sirri then appeared on Al-Jazeera, but the transcript does 21 not authenticate the quotes that appeared in Al-Hayat; it 22 doesn't even mention it. 23 That leaves me with the AFP report, Government 24 Exhibit 536, but neither Taha nor anyone else on the tapes 25 authenticates the AFP report as Taha's words. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5309 497eSAT2 1 Also, there is the translation from the Islamic 2 Observation Center, which does come closest to representing 3 that it is the statement of Taha, but there's no information to 4 authenticate what is the alleged report from the Islamic 5 Observation Center. And the government does not seek to admit 6 that document. So the proffered information is still 7 insufficient to authenticate Taha's statement in the Al-Hayat 8 article. 9 Having said that, it is unclear to me what the 10 significance of the additional Al-Hayat article is to the 11 statements of alleged coconspirators which appear in Government 12 Exhibit 1169. But in any event, there is insufficient 13 authentication for the separate admissibility of 560T. 14 So, I think that deals with everything. Let's call in 15 the jury. 16 Where are we? 17 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, when we resume, we're going 18 to request permission to read and publish to the jury 19 Government Exhibits 1165X, 1166X and 1167X. And the reason I 20 grouped those three together is because the limiting 21 instruction that we discussed with respect to the FISA calls 22 would be appropriate for each of those three calls. And then 23 following that, your Honor, we're going to proceed with the 24 reading of transcripts of the FISA calls. 25 THE COURT: Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5310 497eSAT2 1 (In open court; jury present) 2 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's 3 good to see you all and I hope you had a good holiday. 4 And, again, I appreciate your indulgence when it takes 5 somewhat longer to call you in in the mornings or after a break 6 or so. And it takes me time to deal with issues and so it 7 doesn't affect anything that you have to deal with in the case. 8 And I think that it helps to have you wait in the jury room 9 rather than take additional breaks. And I can assure you I 10 will attempt to deal with matters as quickly as I can and bring 11 you in as close to schedule as possible. So I appreciate very 12 much your indulgence. 13 All right. Government? 14 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you, your Honor. At this time 15 the government would request permission to read and publish to 16 the jury Government Exhibit 1165X. 17 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm 18 informed that there are three exhibits that are coming up, 19 Government Exhibits 1165X, 1166X and 1167X. 20 Now, with respect to each of these transcripts, the 21 transcripts are offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the 22 indictment and they are received subject to connection against 23 Mr. Sattar. I've explained to you what "subject to connection" 24 means. These transcripts cannot be considered against 25 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5311 497eSAT2 1 asserted in the transcripts. And you're to apply that 2 instruction to each of these three transcripts, 1165X, 1166X 3 and 1167X. 4 OK. 5 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner come 6 forward and take the witness stand. 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 MR. MORVILLO: For the record, your Honor, Government 9 Exhibit 1165X is a telephone call heard on September 4th of 10 2000 at 4:02 a.m. Mr. Forkner will read the attributions to 11 Ahmed Abdel Sattar and I will read the attributions to Rifa'i 12 Taha Musa. 13 (At this point Government Exhibit 1165X, in evidence, 14 was displayed and read to the jury) 15 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, at this time the government 16 would request permission to read and publish to the jury 17 Government Exhibit 1166X in evidence. 18 THE COURT: All right. And, ladies and gentlemen, 19 I've already given you the limiting instruction with respect to 20 this exhibit. You apply that here. 21 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, for the record, this is a 22 telephone call on September 4th of 2000 at 4:07 a.m. 23 Mr. Forkner will read the attributions to Mr. Sattar, Ms. Baker 24 will read the attributions to Hani and I will read the 25 attributions to the unidentified male. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5312 497eSAT2 1 May we proceed? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 (At this point Government Exhibit 1166X, in evidence, 4 was displayed and read to the jury) 5 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, at this time the government 6 would request permission to read and display to the jury 7 Government Exhibit 1167X in evidence. 8 THE COURT: All right. And, ladies and gentlemen, 9 this is subject to the same limiting instruction that I've 10 given you with respect to the other two transcripts, and you're 11 to apply it here. 12 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, for the record, 1167X is a 13 telephone call on September 4, 2000, at 4:13 a.m. Mr. Forkner 14 will read the attributions to Mr. Sattar. I will read the 15 attributions to Rifa'i Ahmad Taha Musa and Ms. Baker will read 16 the attributions to Hani. May we proceed? 17 THE COURT: Yes. 18 (At this point Government Exhibit 1167X, in evidence, 19 was displayed and read to the jury) 20 (Continued on next page) 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5313 497JSAT3 1 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, at this time, the 2 government would request permission to read and display to the 3 jury Government Exhibit 1168 X in evidence. 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 MR. MORVILLO: For the record, this is a call on 6 September 12th of 2000, 2:47 pm. Mr. Forkner will read the 7 part of Mr. Sattar and I will read the part of Taha. 8 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1168, in evidence, 9 was displayed and read to the jury) 10 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 11 requests permission to publish and read to the jury Government 12 Exhibit 1169 X, which is in evidence. 13 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed. 14 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, this is a call on September 15 13th of 2000, 6:57 pm. Mr. Forkner will read the lines of 16 Ahmed Abdel Sattar. I will read the lines of Yasser Al-Sirri 17 and the unidentified female, and the other lines of Yaser, Y A 18 S E R, have been excerpted out. 19 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1169 X, in 20 evidence, was displayed and read to the jury) 21 THE COURT: All right. So that we stay more or less 22 on time for the lunch, we'll take our break now. 23 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember my continuing 24 instructions not to talk about the case at all. I urge you to 25 keep an open mind until I have heard all of the evidence and I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5314 497JSAT3 1 have instructed you on the law and you retire to the jury room 2 to begin your deliberations. 3 (Jury excused) 4 (Recess) 5 THE COURT: Be seated, all. 6 It occurred to me at the break that while I was 7 discussing Ms. Stewart's request for an instruction, I asked -- 8 after I decided the issue -- I asked if Ms. Stewart wanted a 9 subject to connection instruction, and she and Mr. Yousry 10 declined. I didn't specifically ask Mr. Sattar's question the 11 same question. 12 MR. PAUL: We are not requesting it. We do not want a 13 subject to connection instruction. 14 THE COURT: Okay. All right. 15 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, when the jury comes back 16 in, we are going to request to read Government Exhibit 1170 X, 17 for which I believe there is a limiting instruction requested. 18 THE COURT: I am sorry. 1170 X? 19 MR. MORVILLO: Yes, your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Okay. 21 MR. MORVILLO: For the court's information, we are not 22 going to present the jury at this time with Government Exhibit 23 1269. We are going to move directly to 1171 X, for which there 24 is also a requested instruction. I don't believe we'll get to 25 1171 X before the lunch break. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5315 497JSAT3 1 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring in the jury. 2 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner come 3 forward while we're waiting? 4 THE COURT: Yes. 5 (Jury present) 6 THE COURT: All right. Please be seated. 7 Ladies and gentlemen, I understand that the next 8 transcript is Government Exhibit 1170 X, and the same 9 instruction as I have previously given on recordings or 10 transcripts this morning should be applied here, The limiting 11 instruction that I gave you on several of the prior 12 transcripts. 13 This transcript was offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 14 of the indictment, and it is received subject to connection 15 against Mr. Sattar. I have explained to you what "subject to 16 connection" means. This transcript cannot be considered 17 against Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the 18 matters asserted in the transcript. All right. 19 MR. MORVILLO: At this time, your Honor, the 20 government would request permission to read and display to the 21 jury Government Exhibit 117O X in evidence. 22 THE COURT: All right. 23 MR. MORVILLO: For the record, your Honor, Government 24 Exhibit 1170 X is a telephone call occurring on September 18th, 25 2000, at 7:02 am. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5316 497JSAT3 1 Mr. Forkner will read the attributions to Mr. Sattar. 2 I will read the attributions to Taha and Ms. Baker will read 3 the attributions to Hani. May we proceed? 4 THE COURT: Yes. 5 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1170X, in evidence, 6 was displayed and read to the jury) 7 (Continued on next page) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5317 497eSAT4 1 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll break for 2 lunch until 2:00. Please remember my continuing instructions 3 not to talk about the case at all. Always remember to keep an 4 open mind until you've heard all the evidence, I've instructed 5 you on the law, you've gone to the jury room to begin your 6 deliberations. 7 Have a good lunch. I look forward to seeing you after 8 lunch. Please be back at 10 of 2:00. 9 See you this afternoon. 10 (Luncheon adjournment) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5318 497eSAT4 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 2:00 3 THE COURT: Good afternoon. All right. 4 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I just wanted to tell the 5 Court something very briefly. 6 At some point possibly before the next break, that's 7 why I'm saying it now, we may get to Government Exhibit 2021, 8 which is a piece of Sattar search evidence. And that piece of 9 evidence is offered -- this has not been -- this is not an 10 exhibit that was litigated. This is a piece of evidence that 11 is offered to show the state of mind, knowledge and intent of 12 Mr. Sattar and Ms. Stewart. So a limiting instruction would be 13 appropriate for that piece of evidence. It's a fax from 14 Ms. Stewart to Mr. Sattar. 15 MR. TIGAR: May I have a moment to review that, your 16 Honor. 17 THE COURT: Yes. Take a moment. 18 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, there also is a newspaper 19 article. We're going to get the newspaper article limiting 20 instruction, too, your Honor, at least -- 21 THE COURT: Yes, I agree. I was going to -- I don't 22 have an exhibit before me, but the usual instruction limits the 23 use of the material. And while it might be offered for 24 knowledge and intent and state of mind, the preliminary 25 instruction would be it's not being received for the truth of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5319 497eSAT4 1 anything that's said in the exhibit. 2 MR. BARKOW: That's correct, your Honor. 3 MR. TIGAR: And then the next question is, what state 4 of mind is it that this allegedly could possibly prove? That 5 is to say, there would have to be some fact in issue that that 6 state of mind would relate to. And, therefore, I don't see the 7 point of a state of mind instruction unless the government will 8 proffer under Federal Rule of Evidence 401 and 402 that there 9 is some state of mind at issue as to which this could be 10 relevant. 11 THE COURT: Why don't we take a break -- 12 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I'm not sure I understand 13 Mr. Tigar's question. The evidence is -- and I can pass a copy 14 up to the Court if the Court doesn't have one. The evidence is 15 a fax from Ms. Stewart to Mr. Sattar that has -- that is an NBC 16 news report that apparently from the fax itself was addressed 17 to Ms. Stewart. And it relates to the bin Laden statements 18 vowing to free Sheikh Abdel Rahman. And so it shows 19 Ms. Stewart's awareness of those statements, her knowledge of 20 those statements and her knowledge of those events. 21 MR. TIGAR: Well, of course, your Honor, the fact that 22 Ms. Stewart is aware of the article is obvious from the fact 23 that she faxed it to someone who had persisted in the legal 24 defense of the Sheikh. The purpose of the limiting 25 instruction, however, as I understand it, is to limit things; SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5320 497eSAT4 1 not to suggest to a jury that something is relevant to a 2 particular disputed matter in issue, because it is our 3 contention that it simply isn't. 4 THE COURT: OK. 5 MR. BARKOW: I think I understand now, your Honor. 6 All I was saying was that we are offering it for the limited 7 purposes, and therefore an appropriate instruction is 8 appropriate. But the Court doesn't need to explain all the 9 purposes to the jury. 10 THE COURT: No, hold on. I think there is a -- that 11 the parties may not have been responding to each other. 12 The last argument by the defense was that the 13 instruction should not suggest any purposes to the jury for 14 which the exhibit might be relevant; that it should be a 15 limiting instruction. 16 The government was previously responding to the 17 question as to what relevance this has to the state of mind of 18 Mr. Sattar and Ms. Stewart, and the response to that was the 19 awareness of the bin Laden statements which are themselves 20 relevant. And so there's a sufficient proffer with respect to 21 the relevance of the article. 22 I agree with the defendant that unless the defendant 23 wants me in some way to explain the purposes for which the 24 article could be used, then it is sufficient to give the jury a 25 limiting instruction which says that this exhibit cannot be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5321 497eSAT4 1 received and is not being received for the truth of anything 2 that is said in the article. And if the defendant does not 3 want me to go on and say it's received for the relevance, if 4 any, for the knowledge, intent and state of mind of Mr. Sattar 5 and Ms. Stewart, then I will just give the newspaper 6 instruction that the article is not being received for the 7 truth of anything that's said in the article and leave to the 8 parties the opportunity to argue what relevance the article may 9 have to the jury's consideration, but not for the truth of 10 anything that's said in the article. 11 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. May I have just a 12 moment, please. 13 THE COURT: Sure. And I listen to -- 14 MR. FALLICK: Your Honor, we're not asking your Honor 15 to give any further instruction explaining the state of mind. 16 THE COURT: Just not being received for the truth of 17 anything that's said. 18 Did I make a point -- Mr. Tigar, if you want some more 19 time to talk, I'll wait until you're ready. 20 MR. TIGAR: If we could just have another moment, 21 please. 22 THE COURT: Sure. 23 MR. TIGAR: We are consulting. That's fine, we will 24 continue our consultation at the break. Our position here is 25 as I stated. The newspaper instruction and nothing beyond SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5322 497eSAT4 1 that. Yes, your Honor. Thank you. 2 THE COURT: OK. Well, if you want to continue to 3 consult at the break, I won't -- we'll take a break and don't 4 introduce it before the break. 5 MR. BARKOW: The newspaper instruction is fine with 6 the government, your Honor. I was just advising the Court what 7 it was. 8 MR. TIGAR: And another housekeeping thing, your 9 Honor. A member of our team has a medical appointment. If we 10 could all leave promptly at 4:30, that would be of material 11 aid, I think is the operative language. 12 THE COURT: Sure. No problem. 13 Well, what's the next piece of evidence? 14 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, when the jury comes back 15 in, we're going to request permission to read and display to 16 the jury Government Exhibits 1171X and 1172X, both in evidence, 17 both of which will get the limiting instruction. 18 Following that, I believe we have a witness very 19 briefly. 20 MS. BAKER: Following that, your Honor, we will read 21 the -- ask to read the stipulation which is Government 22 Exhibit 538S, which is a stipulation relating to the videotape 23 of the Al-Jazeera broadcast. And then based on that 24 stipulation, we will offer the videotape. 25 We then seek to recall the translator Samira Sabek to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5323 497eSAT4 1 authenticate the additional one-page document which reflects 2 the banner in the videotape then we will ask to play the 3 videotape and then read the transcript. 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 MS. BAKER: Sorry, your Honor. Just to be clear, the 6 consequent -- we request permission to present that videotape 7 the same way we presented the other videos, which is to play 8 and scroll the transcript and then read the transcript. 9 Your Honor, I'm reminded we begin by reading first, 10 then playing and scrolling. 11 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner come 12 forward and take the witness stand. 13 THE COURT: Yes. 14 (In open court; jury present) 15 THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 16 Good to see you all. 17 Mr. Morvillo. 18 MR. MORVILLO: Yes, your Honor. At this time the 19 government requests permission to read and display to the jury 20 Government Exhibit 1171X in evidence. 21 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, with 22 respect to Government Exhibit 1171X in evidence, this is 23 subject to the same limiting instruction that I gave you with 24 respect to some of the transcripts this morning, namely this 25 transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5324 497eSAT4 1 indictment and it is received subject to connection against 2 Mr. Sattar. I've explained to you what subject to connection 3 means. 4 This transcript cannot be considered against 5 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 6 asserted in the transcript. 7 All right. 8 MR. MORVILLO: For the record, your Honor, this is a 9 call telephone call on September 18, 2000, at 3:03 p.m. 10 Mr. Forkner will be the attributions to Mr. Sattar, I will read 11 the attributions to Rifa'i Taha Musa, and Ms. Baker may read 12 the attributions for Abu Bakr. 13 There are two others listed but those attributions 14 have been excerpted from the transcript. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 (At this point Government Exhibit 1171X, in evidence, 17 was displayed and read to the jury) 18 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, next the government seeks to 19 present to the jury by displaying and reading the transcript in 20 evidence as Government Exhibit 1172X. 21 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, 22 Government Exhibit 1172X is subject to the same limiting 23 instruction as the last transcript. This transcript is offered 24 only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the indictment and it is received 25 subject to connection against Mr. Sattar. I've explained to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5325 497eSAT4 1 you what "subject to connection" means. 2 This transcript cannot be considered against 3 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 4 asserted in the transcript. 5 All right. 6 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, this is a call on 7 September 21, 2000, at 9:40:51 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the 8 lines attributed to Ahmed Abdel Sattar, I will read the lines 9 attributed to Usama Al Tubji, Mr. Morvillo will read Sa'id 10 Al Atab, and I believe that Lisa Sattar's lines are removed 11 from this excerpt. I'm sorry. There's one Lisa Sattar line, 12 which I will also read. 13 (At this point Government Exhibit 1172X, in evidence, 14 was displayed and read to the jury) 15 (Continued on next page) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5326 497JSAT5 1 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner step down? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 (Pause) 4 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, at this time the government 5 offers and seeks permission to read to the jury a stipulation 6 marked as Government Exhibit 538 S. 7 THE COURT: All right. The number is government 8 exhibit? 9 MS. BAKER: 538 S. 10 THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibit 538 S 11 received in evidence. 12 (Government's Exhibit 538 S received in evidence) 13 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may I display it and read it 14 for the jury? 15 THE COURT: Yes. 16 (At this point, Government Exhibit 538 S, in evidence, 17 was displayed and read) 18 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, on the basis of that 19 stipulation, the government offers Government Exhibit 538, and 20 also based on the testimony previously given, the government 21 offers Government Exhibit 538 T. 22 THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibits 538 and 23 538 T received in evidence. 24 (Government's Exhibits 538 and 538 T received in 25 evidence) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5327 497JSAT5 1 THE COURT: It is subject to a limiting instruction, 2 ladies and gentlemen. The statements in the videotape and the 3 transcript cannot be considered against Mr. Sattar, Ms. Stewart 4 or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters asserted, 5 except that the statements by Mr. Taha are admitted against 6 Mr. Sattar with respect to Counts 2 and 3, subject to 7 connection, for the truth of the matters asserted. 8 In addition, ladies and gentlemen, I want to take this 9 opportunity to instruct you that neither Osama Bin Laden or 10 Ayman Al-Zawahiri is alleged to be a member of any of the 11 conspiracies alleged in this case. 12 MS. BAKER: At this time, the government recalls 13 Samira Sabek. 14 THE CLERK: Ms. Sabek, having been previously sworn, 15 you're reminded you are still under oath. 16 THE COURT: Do you understand? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 SAMIRA SABEK, 19 recalled as a witness by the Government, 20 having been previously duly sworn, testified as follows: 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MS. BAKER: 23 Q. Let me remind you, please, to try to speak loudly so 24 everyone will be able to hear you. 25 You testified previously about a translation that you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5328 497JSAT5 1 did of a videotape? 2 A. Yes, I did. 3 Q. Were you asked also to translate certain signs or banners 4 that were shown in that videotape? 5 A. Yes, I was. 6 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may I approach the witness? 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 (Pause) 9 BY MS. BAKER: 10 Q. I've shown you some items that are marked for 11 identification. The first are three photographs marked as 12 Government Exhibits 538 A, 538 B and 538 C. Do you recognize 13 those photographs? 14 A. Yes, I do. 15 Q. Do they each show one scene or one frame from that 16 videotape that you translated? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do they show the signs or banners that you were asked to 19 translate? 20 A. Yes, they do. 21 Q. How many signs or banners are shown altogether in that 22 video? 23 A. Altogether, there were four. 24 Q. How many of them were you able to translate? 25 A. Three of them. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5329 497JSAT5 1 Q. Could you explain basically what the layout was of the 2 banners in the video? 3 A. Yes, I can. Three of them were horizontal, all on the same 4 level, and one of them slightly above. 5 Q. Of the three that were horizontal and on the same level, 6 how many of those were you able to translate? 7 A. Two. 8 Q. Why were you not able to translate the third one on that 9 level? 10 A. It was partially obscured, partially shown. 11 Q. What about the fourth one that was above the other three, 12 were you able to translate that one? 13 A. Yes. It was very clear. 14 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, the government offers as 15 demonstrative exhibits Government Exhibits 538 A, B and C. 16 THE COURT: All right. Hearing no objection, 17 Government Exhibits 538 A, B and C received as demonstrative 18 aids to the witness' testimony. 19 (Government's Exhibits 538 A, 538 B and 538 C received 20 in evidence) 21 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may I retrieve them from the 22 witness and display them to the the jury? 23 THE COURT: Yes. 24 (Pause) 25 BY MS. BAKER: SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5330 497JSAT5 1 Q. Ms. Sabek, are you able to see that on the screen in front 2 of you? 3 A. Yes, I am. 4 Q. Let me ask you, the numbers that are in the margins of that 5 photograph, which is Government Exhibit 538 A, are they next to 6 two of the banners that you are able to translate? 7 A. Yes, they are. 8 Q. Let me ask you to look, please, at the document that is in 9 front of you, which is marked as Government Exhibit 538 T 2. 10 Do you recognize Government Exhibit 538 T 2? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Is that document an accurate translation, to the best of 13 your ability, to the banners in the video? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Of the banners that are shown in Government Exhibit 538? 16 A. Yes, it is. 17 Q. Looking again at the photograph which is Government Exhibit 18 538 A and looking in the right-hand margin there is a No. 1. 19 Does the translation of that banner which is marked by 20 No. 1 in that photograph appear in Government Exhibit 538 T 2? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. In which paragraph is that particular banner translated? 23 A. No. 1. 24 Q. And the banner which is marked in the photograph Government 25 Exhibit 538 A marked in the margin of the No. 2, is that banner SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5331 497JSAT5 1 translated in Government Exhibit 538 T 2? 2 A. Yes, it is. 3 Q. In the photograph of which number? 4 A. 2. 5 Q. Let me show you one of the other photographs, Government 6 Exhibit 538 B. 7 Starting with the right-hand margin of the photograph 8 there is a No. 2 next to one of the banners. In which 9 paragraph of your translation 538 T 2 is the translation of the 10 banner marked No. 2 in the photograph 538 B? 11 A. No. 2. 12 Q. At the top margin of the photograph 538 B is a No. 3. 13 In which paragraph of your translation is that banner 14 translated? 15 A. No. 3. 16 Q. In the left-hand margin of the photograph 538 B there is a 17 No. 4. Were you able to translate that banner which is marked 18 by the No. 4? 19 A. No, I could not. 20 Q. Switching finally to Government Exhibit 538 C, is that 21 another view of one of the banners that was in the previous 22 paragraph? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. In which paragraph of your translation is the translation 25 of that banner? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5332 497JSAT5 1 A. No. 3. 2 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, the government offers 3 Government Exhibit 538 T 2. 4 THE COURT: All right. Hearing no objection, 5 Government Exhibit 538 T 2 is admitted in evidence. 6 (Government's Exhibit 538 T 2 received in evidence) 7 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, I have no further questions of 8 the witness. We would ask permission to display and read to 9 the jury Government Exhibit 538 T 2. 10 THE COURT: All right. 11 MS. BAKER: May I approach the witness to retrieve the 12 original? 13 THE COURT: Yes. 14 (Pause) 15 MS. BAKER: The title is: 16 Bin Laden, others pledge jihad to release prisoners in 17 U.S., Saudi jails, Hasad al-Yawm program. Source Al-Jazeera 18 Satellite TV based in Qatar, dated September 21, 2000. 19 Your Honor, if I might skip down to the bottom of the 20 document? 21 THE COURT: All right. 22 MS. BAKER: There were four banners shown during the 23 meeting of the four leaders. Three banners were placed 24 horizontally and one was placed above them. The translations 25 of these banners are as follows: SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5333 497JSAT5 1 1. The first banner to the far right (above Usama Bin 2 Laden's head) had these words written on it: "they severed the 3 reaches of their forces and killed them on land, sea and air." 4 2. The second banner (above Ayman Al-Zawahiri's head) 5 had these words written on it: "it was you unanimously agreed 6 on the necessity to free the captive, then who is for the 7 captive scholar Omar Abdel Rahman." 8 The third banner (above and to the left of banner No. 9 2) had these words written on it: "Breaking Dr. Omar Abdel 10 Rahman's captivity is a duty for whoever is able to do it." 11 4. The 4th banner (on the same level and to the left 12 of Banner No. 2 was mostly illegible because most of it was 13 obscured from view. 14 Your Honor, I have no first questions of the witness. 15 THE COURT: All right. No further questions? 16 MR. PAUL: Your Honor? 17 THE COURT: I am sorry. Yes, Mr. Paul. 18 CROSS EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. PAUL: 20 Q. Ms. Sabek, forgive me for my pronounciation of an Arabic 21 word. I am going to ask you a few questions about some of the 22 words that were seen in the banner you just told us about. Let 23 me ask you, the word fek, F E K -- 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. -- what is the literal translation? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5334 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 A. To break something or free something. 2 Q. I am sorry? 3 A. Either to break or to free. 4 Q. To break or free or untie? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Or release? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. The word Youherer, Y O U H E R E R, Youherer, what is the 9 translation of that? 10 A. Say it again, please. 11 Q. Youherer, Y O U H E R E R? 12 A. Youherer? 13 Q. Yes. 14 A. Can you write it and can I see the writing, please. 15 MR. PAUL: May I approach, your Honor? 16 THE COURT: Yes. 17 BY MR. PAUL: 18 Q. I don't know if you can read my handwriting any more than 19 my Arabic translation. 20 (Pause) 21 A. Youherer! 22 Q. Okay. I stand corrected. 23 A. Youherer, to free. 24 Q. What is the word yakser? 25 A. To break. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5335 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 THE COURT: Please keep your voice up so everyone can 2 hear you. 3 THE WITNESS: I am sorry. 4 BY MR. PAUL: 5 Q. The word -- 6 THE COURT: I am sorry. 7 THE WITNESS: Youherer means to free; yakser, to 8 break. 9 THE COURT: To break? 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 BY MR. PAUL: 12 Q. In your translation of those banners, you used, and I am 13 referring to 538 T 2, do you have that in front of you? 14 A. No. 15 Q. I am referring to Paragraph No. 2, where it says, and it is 16 unanimously agreed on the necessity to free the captive. Then 17 the captive scholar Abdel Rahman? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What was the Arab word used in the banner that you 20 translated for the word free? 21 A. Fek S. 22 Q. Fek? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Which is the word I was asking about? 25 A. To free. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5336 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 Q. And you go to the third paragraph, No. 3, where you say, 2 referring to the third banner at the top, in the Subdivision 2, 3 had these words written on it, "breaking Dr. Omar Abdel 4 Rahman's captivity is the duty for whoever is able to do it." 5 What was the word as you saw it in the banner? 6 A. It depends on the text. You choose a word that would most 7 be appropriate. 8 Q. Excuse me. What was the word in Arabic? 9 A. "Breaking." 10 Q. That you saw, that you translated for the word breaking? 11 A. Can I see the other copy, please. 12 MR. PAUL: Can that be displayed, please? 13 MS. BAKER: For the record, at Mr. Paul's request, I 14 am handing the witness Government Exhibit 538 C. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 BY MR. PAUL: 17 Q. Do you see the word you translated into English using the 18 word breaking? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What was the word in Arabic that was used? 21 A. Fek S. 22 Q. Which was the same word that I asked you about literally 23 translates into untie or release? 24 A. It is the same thing. It means the same thing. 25 Q. It means the same thing? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5337 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So you looked at this and you determined, you, the 3 interpreter, made a determination that the appropriate or 4 proper translation for that Arabic word would be breaking. Is 5 that right? 6 A. To break somebody from captivity, yes. 7 Q. When, in fact, the translation could have easily have been 8 release that person? 9 A. Releasing them from captivity, but when somebody is 10 captive, you try to get him out of captivity. 11 Q. My point is that you specifically chose that translation in 12 the translation of breaking rather than releasing because you 13 personally thought that was the more appropriate translation. 14 Is that what you're telling us? 15 A. How can somebody else release somebody from captivity? 16 Q. You made that determination is the question, that is right? 17 A. It is according to the text that was in front of me. 18 Q. If someone is in captivity? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And people are calling out for the release of that 21 individual, you interpreted that to mean that it should be 22 breaking in that specific context. Is that right? 23 A. That was most appropriate, yes. 24 Q. You made that determination. Is that right? 25 A. According to the text. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5338 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 Q. By the way, you listened or looked at this video. Is that 2 right? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. And then you translated this video, correct? 5 A. Yes, yes. 6 Q. Who handed you this video when you were translating it? 7 MS. BAKER: Objection. Relevance. 8 THE COURT: Overruled. 9 A. Whenever you see something, it comes from our supervisor, 10 with a work order, and we do it. 11 BY MR. PAUL: 12 Q. You looked at this video. 13 Were you able to determine -- you told us you would be 14 able to tell us the date that was indicated, but were you able 15 to determine when exactly the time this was broadcast? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. Just the date. Is that right? 18 A. Sometimes on -- 19 Q. My question, Ms. Sabek, was when you looked at the video 20 during the time you looked at it and began to translate and 21 reviewed it, were you ever able to determine the actual time 22 that this video was broadcast? 23 A. I don't recall. 24 Q. You don't recall? 25 A. No. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5339 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 Q. If there was any indication anywhere, would you have 2 indicated that on your translation? 3 A. Of course, If it was there, yes, I would have put it. 4 Q. We know, in fact, you did not. There is no indication in 5 your translation as to the time. Is that right? 6 A. I don't think it was there. 7 MR. PAUL: Thank you. One second, please, Judge, if I 8 may. 9 (Pause) 10 BY MR. PAUL: 11 Q. Ms. Sabek, you began to describe the Hasad al-Yawm program? 12 A. I -- 13 Q. That is what this video was broadcast on. Is that right? 14 A. It was. 15 Q. Do you know when that program was broadcast? 16 A. The days? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I watched it myself. 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. If -- 21 Q. When you have the time, when is it broadcast? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. You don't recall? 24 A. If it is on, then I watch it. I just go and look for it. 25 Q. For the last time you looked for it and you happened to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5340 497JSAT5 Sabek - cross 1 come upon it and you happened to have the time to review it or 2 looked at it, do you remember what time of day that was? 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. You don't recall? 5 A. If it is on, then I see it; If not, I don't. 6 Q. You don't recall when, in fact, when you have seen it, what 7 time that was? 8 A. It is usually in the evening. 9 Q. In the evening? 10 A. When I get home. If it is reruns, it is in the evening. 11 If not, then I don't watch it at all. 12 MR. PAUL: Thank you. Nothing further, your Honor. 13 Thank you. 14 MS. BAKER: No further questions. 15 THE COURT: All right. The witness is excused. You 16 may step down. 17 (Witness excused) 18 THE COURT: All right. 19 MS. BAKER: At this time, the government asks to 20 publish Government Exhibit 538 T to the jury by displaying it 21 and reading it. 22 We would ask that I be permitted to read the lines 23 attributed both to the Al-Jazeera recorder and anchorperson 24 Rima Salha, that Mr. Barkow be permitted to take the witness 25 stand and read the lines attributed to Osama Bin Laden and also SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5341 497JSAT5 1 later on to Asadallah, that Mr. Morvillo be permitted to come 2 and stand at the lectern with me and read the lines attributed 3 to Rifa'l Ahmad Taha, and that Mr. Dember be permitted to join 4 me at the lectern at the appropriate points and read the lines 5 attributed to Ayman Al-Zawahiri and also Muntasir Al-Zayat, and 6 come to the lectern at the appropriate time and read the lines 7 of General Fouad Mohammad Tawfiq Allam. 8 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, 9 remember, that the transcript and the individual videotape is 10 subject to a limiting instruction which I gave you a little 11 while ago. 12 As you'll recall, the statements in the videotape and 13 the transcript cannot be considered against Mr. Sattar, Ms. 14 Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 15 asserted, except that the statements by Mr. Taha are admitted 16 against Mr. Sattar with respect to Counts 2 and 3, subject to 17 connection for the truth of the matters asserted. 18 In addition, as I've said, I take this opportunity to 19 instruct you that neither Osama Bin Laden or Ayman Al-Zawahiri 20 is alleged to be a member of any of the conspiracies alleged in 21 this case. 22 All right. You may proceed. 23 MR. BARKOW: May I approach, your Honor? 24 THE COURT: Yes. 25 MS. BAKER: For the record again, this is a videotape, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5342 497JSAT5 1 dated September 21st, 2000. 2 (At this point, Government Exhibit 538 T, in evidence, 3 was displayed and played for the jury). 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, the government would now ask 6 permission to play the videotape Government Exhibit 538 to the 7 jury while scrolling through the transcript. 8 Does your Honor wish to take a break first? 9 THE COURT: No. I think we'll play it -- well, all 10 right. We can take our mid-afternoon break for 10 minutes. 11 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember my continuing 12 instructions. Please don't talk about this case at all, please 13 remember to keep an open mind until you've heard all of the 14 evidence, I've instructed you on the law and you've gone to the 15 jury room to begin your deliberations. Have a good break. 10 16 minutes. I'll see you shortly. 17 (Jury excused) 18 THE COURT: See you shortly. 19 (Recess) 20 (Continued on next page) 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5343 497JSAT5 1 (In open court; jury not present) 2 THE COURT: Please be seated. Let's bring in the 3 jury. 4 Oh, there was an issue that, Mr. Tigar, you were going 5 to discuss over the break with respect to the -- 6 MR. TIGAR: We're fine. Thank you, your Honor. It 7 was simply a lawyer-client communication, and it was 8 accomplished. 9 THE COURT: All right. And so the instruction for 10 Government Exhibit 2301 is it's not being received for the 11 truth of anything that's said in it. 12 MR. TIGAR: That's correct. Thank you, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: All right. 14 (Continued on next page) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5344 497JSAT5 1 (In open court; jury present) 2 THE COURT: The government was about to turn to 3 Government Exhibit 538, which was a videotape, ladies and 4 gentlemen. I previously gave you a limiting instruction that 5 applies to Government Exhibit 538, and you are to apply that 6 here. 7 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, if the jurors wish to put on 8 their headsets, although obviously it's in Arabic. 9 THE COURT: All right, ladies and gentlemen. If you'd 10 put on your headsets, remember to -- the dot faces out and turn 11 them on. 12 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may they also display the 13 transcript, 538T. 14 THE COURT: Yes, and I've given you the instruction 15 with respect to Government Exhibit 538T, the limiting 16 instruction. 17 (At this point Government Exhibit 538, in evidence, 18 was played for the jury) 19 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, you can 20 take the earphones off and remember to turn the earphones off. 21 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, at this time the government 22 would request permission to read and display to the jury 23 Government Exhibit 1173X in evidence. Can Mr. Forkner come 24 forward and resume the witness stand. 25 THE COURT: Yes. One moment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5345 497JSAT5 1 MR. MORVILLO: This is a call, your Honor, where the 2 limiting instruction would be appropriate. 3 THE COURT: Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, Government 4 Exhibit 1173X, I want to give you a limiting instruction, as I 5 have with respect to some of the transcripts today. This 6 transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the 7 indictment, and it is received subject to connection against 8 Mr. Sattar. I've explained to you what "subject to connection" 9 means. 10 This transcript cannot be considered against 11 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 12 asserted in the transcript. 13 MR. MORVILLO: For the record, your Honor, Government 14 Exhibit 1173X is a telephone call on September 21, 2000, at 15 10:32 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the attributions to 16 Mr. Sattar and I will read the attributions to Mr. Taha. 17 THE COURT: All right. 18 (At this point Government Exhibit 1173X, in evidence, 19 was displayed and read to the jury) 20 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 21 requests permission to read and publish Government 22 Exhibit 1174X, which is in evidence and is also a call that 23 would appropriately receive the limiting instruction. 24 THE COURT: All right. Hold on one moment. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, this transcript is subject to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5346 497JSAT5 1 the same limiting instruction as the last transcript. This 2 transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the 3 indictment and it is received subject to connection against 4 Mr. Sattar. I've explained to you what "subject to connection" 5 means. 6 This transcript cannot be considered against 7 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 8 asserted in the transcript. 9 MR. BARKOW: May we proceed, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Yes. 11 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, this is a call on 12 September 21, 2000, at 11:43 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the 13 lines of Ahmed Abdel Sattar and I will read the lines of the 14 unidentified male. 15 (At this point Government Exhibit 1174X, in evidence, 16 was displayed and read to the jury) 17 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 18 requests permission to read and publish to the jury Government 19 Exhibit 1175X, which is in evidence and also would 20 appropriately receive the limiting instruction. 21 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, this 22 exhibit is subject to the same limiting instruction. This 23 transcript is offered only as to Counts 2 and 3 of the 24 indictment and is received subject to connection against 25 Mr. Sattar. I've already explained to you what "subject to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5347 497JSAT5 1 connection" means. 2 This transcript cannot be considered against 3 Ms. Stewart or Mr. Yousry for the truth of any of the matters 4 asserted in the transcript. 5 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, this is a call on 6 September 23rd of 2000 at 2:53 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the 7 line of Ahmed Abdel Sattar and I will read the line of Firas 8 Jandali. 9 May we proceed. 10 THE COURT: Yes. 11 (At this point Government Exhibit 1175X, in evidence, 12 was displayed and read to the jury) 13 THE COURT: All right. We'll break for the day. 14 Ladies and gentlemen, it's just about 4:30 so we will break for 15 the day, resume tomorrow at 9:30. 16 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember to follow all of 17 my instructions. Please follow them very carefully. Remember, 18 please, don't talk about this case at all. Remember, please, 19 don't look at, listen to anything to do with the case. If you 20 should see or hear something inadvertently, simply turn away. 21 As I've repeatedly told you, you are here, you listen 22 to all of the evidence you see and hear, everything that is 23 relevant to your deliberations. So please don't look at, 24 listen to anything to do with the case. Always remember to 25 keep an open mind until you've heard all of the evidence, I've SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5348 497JSAT5 1 instructed you on the law and you've gone to the jury room to 2 begin your deliberations. Fairness and justice to the parties 3 requires that you do that. 4 With that, a very good evening, and I look forward to 5 seeing all of you tomorrow morning at 9:30. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5349 497JSAT5 1 (In open court; jury not present) 2 THE COURT: It's 4:29. We'll break for the day. I'll 3 see you all tomorrow morning at quarter after 9:00. Have a 4 good evening. 5 (Adjourned to Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 6 9:15{ }a.m.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5350 497JSAT5 1 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS 2 Exhibit No. Received 3 538 S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5326 4 538 and 538 T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5326 5 538 A, 538 B and 538 C . . . . . . . . . 5329 6 538 T 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5332 7 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 8 Examination of: Page 9 SAMIRA SABEK 5327 10 Cross By Mr. Paul . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5333 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300