5912 49lesat1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 September 21, 2004 8 9:25 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO 17 ANTHONY BARKOW 17 ANDREW DEMBER 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL 19 BARRY M. FALLICK 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE 23 DAVID STERN 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5913 49lesat1 1 (Trial continuing) 2 THE COURT: Good morning, all. Please be seated. 3 Mr. Barkow's letter with respect to the Taha book 4 raises the question of whether the defendants are going to 5 respond in writing or -- 6 MR. FALLICK: Your Honor, if it's all right with the 7 Court, we would like to submit a letter by the end of this 8 evening. 9 THE COURT: At the end of? 10 MR. FALLICK: Tonight. 11 THE COURT: Sure. 12 MR. FALLICK: Thank you. 13 THE COURT: The government should also give me a disk 14 with the superseding indictment on it. You may have done that 15 at some time in the past, but you should do it again. 16 All right. Anything else? 17 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, we anticipate, assuming that 18 she arrives, that our -- the first order of business today 19 would be to recall Ms. Banout. 20 And I just wanted to raise -- it is our understanding 21 that the end of her -- well, at the end of her testimony it is 22 our intention to offer into evidence Government Exhibits 1315 23 and 1315C. And it is my understanding that although Mr. Tigar 24 would seek to preserve the objections that he had raised 25 previously, at that point there will not be an objection made SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5914 49lesat1 1 and the evidence will be received. And that is the 2 understanding on which we intend to recall Ms. Banout, and I 3 just want to confirm that before we do so. 4 MR. TIGAR: That's my understanding, your Honor. 5 And if I could add, with respect to the Taha book, I 6 will not have a great deal to add to what we had said in the 7 earlier arguments on this subject. So I'd rather be heard 8 orally than file something in writing, unless the Court would 9 prefer it to be a written -- 10 THE COURT: No, it doesn't have to be in writing, but 11 it would be helpful to me if you would just direct me -- the 12 government in its letter refers to a prior transcript, and I 13 can certainly get that transcript. 14 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. At around 3050 and 15 following, and then particularly at 3010 there is some 16 discussion of the Taha book. Mr. Barkow begins at 3010 and 17 then quotes, and then I start up again on 3013. So through 18 those pages. 19 THE COURT: I'm sorry. 3050? 20 MR. TIGAR: Starting at 3050 we start talking about 21 the search, the constables. Then at 3010 discussion of the 22 Taha book begins in earnest and continues -- 23 THE COURT: There must be something wrong with those 24 papers. 3050 -- 25 MR. TIGAR: Sorry. 3005. I'm sorry, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5915 49lesat1 1 Dyslexic. 2 THE COURT: 3005? 3 MR. TIGAR: Yes. Then at 3010 an earnest discussion 4 of the Taha book begins and goes for about ten pages. 5 THE COURT: OK. Thank you. 6 MR. TIGAR: And in this connection, because it's not 7 being offered against Ms. Stewart, we'll be discussing some of 8 the difficulties of the fact that Mr. Taha's a member of the 9 Count 1 and the Count 2 conspiracies. It was not so much an 10 issue at that time. 11 And I'll also be talking -- I'll talk about the Noto 12 case at that time. In the briefing we all discussed that Rice 13 vs. Paladin Enterprises case. And in response to the 14 government's motion on April the 14th, 2003, our filing, I 15 cited Professor Anderson's article in the Wake Forest Law 16 Review on publications and potential harm that could result 17 from publications. That's all in the record. 18 THE COURT: OK. Thank you. 19 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I think Mr. Dember had an 20 issue. And while he's raising it may I step out to see if 21 Ms. Banout's in the hall? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 MR. DEMBER: It's actually a rather minor matter, your 24 Honor. But originally, when Agent Stumf was on the witness 25 stand, the defense introduced a photograph of part of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5916 49lesat1 1 Ms. Stewart's office into evidence. It turned out to be from a 2 series of photographs that defense had asked me to bring to 3 court so he could look at. And they actually put the sticker 4 on what was an original photograph. 5 We have an enlargement of the very same photograph. 6 And yesterday Ms. Shellow-Levine and I had the sticker just 7 placed on the large one as opposed to the original. And we 8 agreed that the enlargement of the same photograph will have 9 the same exhibit number, and it will be substituted in evidence 10 for the one that they originally presented. It's defense 11 Exhibit LS45, and I'll provide it to Ms. Shellow-Levine so they 12 can preserve their exhibits. 13 THE COURT: OK. Do the parties agree with that so 14 they -- parties agree what defendants' Exhibit LS45 is? 15 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: That's correct, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: And nothing has to be said to the jury 17 about it. 18 MR. DEMBER: No need, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: OK. All right. Shall we bring in the 20 jury? Is Ms. Banout -- 21 MR. BARKOW: Yes, she is, your Honor. Shall she come 22 in? 23 THE COURT: Yes. 24 (Continued on next page) 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5917 49lesat1 1 (In open court; jury present) 2 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Good 3 to see you all. 4 All right. Government? 5 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, the government recalls 6 Ms. Banout, Ms. Nabila Banout. 7 NABILA BANOUT, resumed. 8 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Ms. Banout, having been previously 9 sworn, you are reminded that you're still under oath. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, the government tenders the 13 witness for continued cross-examination. 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 CROSS EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. TIGAR: 17 Q. Good morning, Ms. Banout. 18 A. Good morning, Mr. Tigar. 19 Q. You participated, did you not, in translating a telephone 20 call that took place between Mr. Sattar and someone named 21 Mohammed Salah on the 21st of June, 2000, is that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And was that a -- that was one continuous telephone call, 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5918 49lesat1 Banout - cross 1 Q. However, it -- as you received it to do the translation, 2 you noticed that it was broken into 12 segments, is that right? 3 A. Yes, 12 or 13. 4 Q. All right. And you reported, did you not, that the 5 Spidernet system had broken it into 12 segments, do you 6 remember that? 7 A. Yes. Yes, I do. 8 Q. And you reported that to Mr. Steven Sorrels, the FBI agent? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Mr. Sorrels is one of the agents who was working with you 11 and the other language specialists around these recordings or 12 calls, right? 13 A. Yes. Yes. 14 Q. Now, can you -- because some portions of this call are in 15 evidence and other portions will be, to make it a continuous 16 call, could you help us out: Could you describe to the jury 17 what you heard as you tried to listen to this call and put the 18 12 segments together to understand it? 19 A. Mm-mm. Yes, I can. 20 Q. Would you do that, please. 21 A. Sure. As the call continued there were periods of 22 intermission, loud sounds, sharp at points. During these 23 periods of voice sharp sounds, no conversation could be heard. 24 When they ceased, when they stop, then regular conversation 25 continues to occur. And at that point we picked up the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5919 49lesat1 Banout - cross 1 translation. 2 Q. Now, you said there were intermissions. Now, were those 3 intermissions within the individual call segments or 4 intermissions between the segments? 5 A. No, during each one, if I remember right, to the best of my 6 recollection. 7 Q. And then you said there were loud sounds? 8 A. Loud streak, sharp noise. That's the best way I can 9 describe it. Like a whistle like -- sharp sounds. 10 Q. It didn't -- I mean, as you were listening to it, it didn't 11 sound like Mr. Sattar and Mr. Salah were going on where they 12 were making these sounds, right? 13 A. Oh, no. 14 Q. These were on the recording? 15 A. We can say so but I don't know where they come from, to be 16 truthful. 17 Q. And now, as you listened to the call, you noted that 18 Mr. Sattar and Mr. Salah apparently didn't have any problem 19 hearing each other, correct? 20 A. No, they didn't have a problem. 21 Q. And that was what led you to think it was a problem with 22 the recorder or the machine or the recording and not with them 23 or their telephones, right? 24 A. Right. It led me to think so because they had no problem 25 hearing each other. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5920 49lesat1 Banout - cross 1 Q. Now, when you say they had no problem hearing each other, 2 you mean that they didn't say, hello, hello, I can't hear you, 3 or things that people would ordinarily say to each other if 4 they can't hear what's being said, right? 5 A. Exactly so. 6 Q. Now, this call was in Arabic, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And in Arabic -- I mean, people who talk Arabic on the 9 phone do the same as like people who talk English on the phone; 10 if they can't hear each other, they say something, right? 11 A. Exactly. 12 Q. There's no cultural inhibition on saying, could you talk a 13 little louder, is there? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And so after you discovered this problem -- let me first 16 ask: As you did your -- as you do your translations, you have 17 a policy of putting unintelligible where you can sort of -- you 18 can hear a conversation but you can't quite make out what's 19 being said, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And an unintelligible when we see it could be a syllable, a 22 word or even more than that, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And then you have a technical problems description, and 25 that you use for indications where either the telephone SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5921 49lesat1 Banout - cross 1 caller's equipment or the equipment you're listening on is 2 creating a problem that prevents you from hearing, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Is that a fair summary of the distinction? 5 A. Yes, it is. 6 Q. Now, as a result of hearing this call and having it broken 7 into 12 parts, you made a recommendation that it not be used, 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And as a result of that recommendation, is it your 11 understanding that the actual recording was then sent down to 12 the laboratory in Quantico to be enhanced? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And after it came back from being enhanced, were you asked 15 to listen to it again or was someone else asked to do that? 16 A. When it came on the DVD, I listened to it again. But I 17 can't be very sure this is after or before the enhancement or 18 if the enhancement did anything at all. 19 Q. But you're aware that most of the segments of the call 20 after it was enhanced were then translated by Ms. Benjamin, is 21 that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Now -- 24 MR. TIGAR: May I have a moment, please, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5922 49lesat1 Banout - cross 1 MR. TIGAR: Ms. Banout, thank you very much. I have 2 no further questions, your Honor. 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. BARKOW: 6 Q. Ms. Banout, just a few questions for you. Just to make 7 sure that I understand, you were asked by Mr. Tigar about the 8 sounds and when you could hear and when you couldn't hear -- 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. -- the participants in the call. 11 In the telephone call, when these noises were going on 12 and sharp sounds, could you hear what the people were saying on 13 the line? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And do you know what the problem was with -- that was 16 causing it, causing these noises? 17 A. Not exactly, no. 18 Q. Do you know whether it was your equipment or the phone line 19 coming into the FBI or any of those things? 20 A. No. 21 Q. And when there were no such sounds, could you hear what the 22 participants were saying? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And, again, just to be clear, this was broken into -- this 25 call was broken into 12 to 13 segments, but it was just one SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5923 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 call, is that right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And about how many calls have you listened to in your time 4 in this case? 5 A. Thousands. 6 Q. And did you ever hear any noises like this with any other 7 call? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Now, Mr. Tigar asked you about the enhanced copies. Do you 10 remember whether you listened to the call when it came back in 11 its enhanced form, can you remember? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Now, Ms. Banout, you were also asked about your 14 recommendation that this call not be used. Mr. Tigar asked you 15 about that? 16 A. Yes. Yes. 17 Q. Who did you make that recommendation to? 18 A. I mentioned it in my e-mail to Mr. Sorrels. 19 Q. And that's Steve Sorrels, an agent on this case? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And why do you recommend that this call not be used? 22 A. The reason is the information that came in this call came 23 on other calls, so we are not missing anything. Besides, I 24 didn't want anybody to experience the pain with these sharp 25 noises that I had to go through to translate. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5924 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 Q. What do you mean? 2 A. Like it's painful to hear these sharp noise that you have 3 to bear with to get to the audible good parts that you need to 4 translate. You just have to hear the whole thing to come to a 5 point where they start conversation again and to pick up 6 translation. 7 Q. Now, had you ever experienced such pain in connection with 8 any other call you listened to in other calls in this case? 9 A. Seldom. 10 Q. I'm sorry. Did you ever have such pain or problems or 11 noises with any other call in this case? 12 A. That's a very seldom occurrence. 13 THE COURT: I'm sorry. You said that's a very seldom 14 occurrence? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. BARKOW: May I have just a moment, your Honor. 17 Q. And, Ms. Banout, you made transcripts for use in this case, 18 right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you testified about those, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you also listen to calls that aren't being used in this 23 case? Did I -- let me -- I think I misspoke. 24 Did you also listen to and translate calls that aren't 25 being used in this trial? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5925 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And when you had said previously that you listened to 3 thousands of calls, is that what you were referring to? 4 A. Yes. 5 MR. BARKOW: We have nothing further, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 MR. TIGAR: May I inquire? I would just like to ask 8 on -- whatever this is now becoming. 9 THE COURT: Yes. 10 RECROSS EXAMINATION 11 BY MR. TIGAR: 12 Q. Ms. Banout, you said that the difficulties were a seldom 13 occurrence, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Now, when you had these difficulties, is it correct that 16 you would note technical problems? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. So that if we see the words technical problems in a 19 transcript, we understand that that's the kind of difficulty 20 that was being encountered, correct? 21 A. Yes, correct. 22 MR. TIGAR: Thank you very much. No further 23 questions. 24 MR. BARKOW: Briefly, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Limited to the last questions asked. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5926 49lesat1 Banout - recross 1 MR. BARKOW: Yes, your Honor. 2 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. BARKOW: 4 Q. Ms. Banout, the sharp sounds that you heard in this call, 5 did you hear such sharp sounds in any other call that you 6 prepared for use in this trial? 7 A. No. 8 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, outside the scope. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. 10 MR. BARKOW: I'm sorry, Ms. Banout? 11 THE COURT: I overruled the objection and the witness 12 answered. 13 MR. BARKOW: The witness did answer, your Honor? 14 THE COURT: Yes. The witness answered "no." 15 MR. BARKOW: Nothing further, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Banout, you're excused. 17 You may step down. 18 (Witness excused) 19 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 20 offers Government Exhibits 1315 and 1315C. 21 THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibits 1315 and 22 1315C received in evidence. 23 (Government's Exhibits 1315 and 1315C received in 24 evidence) 25 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, may I confer with Mr. Barkow SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5927 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 briefly. 2 THE COURT: Sure. 3 MR. BARKOW: May I just have a minute, your Honor. 4 Your Honor, at this point the government requests 5 permission to read and publish to the jury what is in evidence 6 as Government Exhibit 1217X. 7 THE COURT: All right. If any juror would like to 8 keep a box of tissues, that's fine, they're on us. So don't 9 worry if you keep a box, we'll get more. 10 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner come forward 11 to the witness stand. 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MS. BAKER: May we proceed, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Yes. 15 MS. BAKER: This is a call on December 21, 2000, 16 starting at 11:00 p.m. 17 Mr. Forkner will read the lines attributed to Ahmed 18 Abdel Sattar, I will read the lines attributed to unidentified 19 female and then to Um Ammar. 20 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1217X, in evidence, 21 was displayed and read to the jury) 22 THE COURT: All right. 23 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, at this time the government 24 asks permission to display and read to the jury Government 25 Exhibit 1218X, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5928 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 THE COURT: All right. 2 MS. BAKER: This is a call on December 22, 2000, at 3 5:51 p.m. 4 Mr. Forkner will read the lines attributed to Ahmed 5 Abdel Sattar and I will read the lines attributed to Rifa'i 6 Ahmad Taha Musa. 7 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1218X, in evidence, 8 was displayed and read to the jury) 9 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 10 requests permission to read and publish to the jury what is in 11 evidence as Government Exhibit 1219X. 12 THE COURT: All right. Your Honor, this is a call on 13 January 8, 2001 at 3:29 p.m. 14 Mr. Forkner will read the lines of Ahmed Abdel Sattar. 15 Ms. Baker will read the lines of Aisha Abdel Rahman. I will 16 read the lines of Abdullah Abdel Rahman, and I will read the 17 lines of the unidentified female. 18 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1219X, in evidence, 19 was displayed and read to the jury) 20 THE COURT: Could we just stop for a second. I should 21 have stopped at the beginning just before we started this. 22 It's about 10:36. Why don't we take a stretch break 23 at this point. 24 (Pause) 25 THE COURT: Thank you. You may proceed. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5929 49lesat1 Banout - redirect 1 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may we pick up with the last 2 line that was read. 3 THE COURT: Sure. 4 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1219X, in evidence, 5 was displayed and further read to the jury) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5930 49LMSAT2 1 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will take a 2 mid-morning break at this point. Please remember my continuing 3 instructions. Please don't talk about this case at all. 4 Always remember to keep an open mind. 5 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 6 jury room. 7 (Jury not present) 8 THE COURT: Would you be seated, please. There were a 9 few things. If you wanted to take a break and then discuss 10 them, there are issues of scheduling and some issues with 11 respect to the audio files on 1315 that I wanted to raise to 12 make sure the exhibits that are contained on 1315 are in 13 evidence. 14 If you want to break now, we will take a break for 10 15 minutes and then I'll discuss the issues with you. 16 (Recess) 17 (Pages 5931-5932 SEALED by order of the Court) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5933 49LMSAT2 1 (In open court) 2 THE COURT: On 1315, I did want to address a couple of 3 issues. In the government's September 7 letter it said that 4 the government at that time was no longer seeking the admission 5 of 1315 or of the 13 audio files on Exhibit 1315 and then said 6 that the transcripts of those audio files, which were then 7 listed, were previously admitted into evidence. What is the 8 status now of the 13 audio files: 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 9 1260, 1261, 1262, 1263, 1264, 1265, 1266, and 1267? 10 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, in light of the fact that the 11 government agreed to recall Ms. Banout so Mr. Tigar could 12 continue cross-examining her, the government has now offered 13 1315 and 1315C into evidence, and the government intended by 14 that offer to be offering each of the audio files which are on 15 those disks. 16 And just to correct the record a little bit, your 17 Honor correctly listed the exhibit numbers of the audio files, 18 but the total, when you add up or count all of those exhibit 19 numbers, it comes out to 12 and that's because 12 of the audio 20 files from that call are on 1315 and 1315C. The 13th segment 21 of that call is on Government Exhibit 1000. It is a 13-piece 22 call, but 12 pieces are on those two disks. 23 Now that Ms. Banout has been fully examined about the 24 matter and the government has offered those two disks and the 25 disks have been received, it is the government's view that, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5934 49LMSAT2 1 therefore, those 12 audio files are in evidence. If the Court 2 needs us to do something else to complete the offer of those 3 files, we will. But my recollection is that for all of the 4 other audio files in the case the government admitted the audio 5 files merely by admitting the disks and saying that what we 6 were admitting were the portions of the audio files that 7 corresponded to the excerpted transcripts without reciting the 8 exhibit numbers of each of the individual audio files, and so 9 we believed that we were doing the same thing here. 10 As to the corresponding transcripts of the 12 audio 11 files, it is my recollection -- and we can confirm this and 12 left the Court know if I'm wrong -- but it is my recollection 13 that we previously checked in connection with that letter that 14 the Court just cited and determined that the X transcripts for 15 each of those 12 audio files had already been authenticated and 16 offered into evidence and received in evidence. So it is the 17 government's understanding that now those calls and their 18 corresponding transcripts are fully in evidence. 19 THE COURT: Well, the letter reflects that the 20 transcripts were admitted in evidence. And when 1315 and 1315C 21 today were offered, they weren't offered and admitted. They 22 weren't subject to the usual reference to those portions that 23 correspond -- 24 MS. BAKER: That was deliberate and the reason is that 25 for those 12 audio files the X transcripts contain the entire SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5935 49LMSAT2 1 audio file. There was nothing excerpted out, so there was no 2 reason to recite that usual carving out. 3 THE COURT: What's the parties' position as to whether 4 there should be a separate offer with respect to the individual 5 Government Exhibits 1147, et cetera, the 12? 6 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, our record shows or actually 7 Mr. Morvillo's record shows that those X files are in evidence 8 and, therefore, we did not think any further offer was 9 necessary. We will probably publish these in our case. 10 THE COURT: The X exhibits everyone seems to agree are 11 in evidence. Then the question is, the Government Exhibit 12 1147, 1148, 1149, et cetera. 13 MR. TIGAR: The actual audio files? 14 THE COURT: Right. 15 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, it is the government's 16 position that by having the Court receive the disks in evidence 17 that that constitutes the receipt of each of the audio files on 18 the disks. 19 THE COURT: If the parties agree with that and nothing 20 further is necessary, that's fine. 21 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: Fine by me. 23 The next issue is Government Exhibit 1315 and 24 Government Exhibit 1315C have been received in evidence. And 25 there was a certain amount of back and forth with respect to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5936 49LMSAT2 1 1315 and 1315C and who wanted it in and who didn't want it in 2 and what the objections, if any, were to those exhibits. 3 My recollection was that the defendants had said, 4 Judge, in view of your prior ruling, we thought it inevitable 5 that 1315 and 1315C would be authenticated and in evidence. 6 And the defendants then said, we positively think that these 7 are favorable evidence for us and, therefore, we want them in, 8 when the government sought to withdraw the transcripts that 9 were admitted in evidence. 10 And so that there is no -- as this issue was 11 proceeding with the various views of the parties on the 12 admissibility of 1315 and 1315C, I did review the underlying 13 transcripts just to assure myself as to the decision with 14 respect to authenticity. And so that there is no lack of 15 clarity, the Government Exhibits 1315 and 1315C, the 16 authenticity of those exhibits is sufficiently established. 17 The transcripts support the initial findings of authenticity, 18 and the inaudible portions reflected in the transcripts are not 19 so substantial as to render the recording as a whole 20 untrustworthy. See United States v. Arango Correa, 851 F.2d, 21 5458 (2d Cir. 1988). 22 With respect to authenticity, for all of the reasons 23 that the Court found in which the defendants appear to 24 acknowledge, together with Mr. Losinski testimony as to the 25 nature of the enhancement, the government provided clear and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5937 49LMSAT2 1 convincing evidence of authenticity and accuracy. In addition, 2 the calls are authenticated by their internal indicia. They 3 flow logically and are related to the content of other external 4 events and flow in terms of date and time and content, 5 including the attributions to the participants. See United 6 States v. Morrison, 153 F.3d 3456 (2d Cir. 1998). 7 With respect to the quantity of the inaudible 8 portions, it is clear that they are not so substantial as to 9 render the reporting untrustworthy. 10 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, I listened carefully and I am 11 not sure. What is it that your Honor found that we had 12 acknowledged? 13 THE COURT: That the admissibility of 1315 and 1315C 14 flows logically from the Court's prior rulings with respect to 15 authenticity. 16 MR. TIGAR: Indeed. That is our position. 17 THE COURT: Or to put it another way, as I think you 18 have put it, it was well nigh inevitable. But because an issue 19 had been specifically raised with respect to this call and the 20 treatment of this call and the segments on the call and the 21 enhancement on the call, and because a separate issue had been 22 raised, I went back specifically to look at this because -- and 23 I had obviously done this before the statement today that the 24 defendants were maintaining their objection. And from that it 25 wasn't clear to me exactly what the nature of the objection SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5938 49LMSAT2 1 with respect to 1315 and 1315C was, whether it was a 2 generalized objection or a specific objection with respect to 3 the nature of the call and the way in which it was broken up 4 and recorded and treated and enhanced. 5 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we have made our position 6 clear about what we thought was the correct legal standard and 7 factual predicate for authenticity, and I just wanted to make 8 sure that it is clear that that is our position. Of course, we 9 have this ongoing dispute with the government concerning what 10 in shorthand terms would be the adequacy of some of this 11 authentication showing in the procedures that accompanied it. 12 We have not waived any of that. When I said it is well nigh 13 inevitable, what I meant was, under the legal standard and 14 factual showing -- under the legal standard that your Honor had 15 set and the factual showing that your Honor had accepted, yes, 16 it was well nigh inevitable. We don't wish to be seen as 17 waiving a contention that we had pressed and do continue to 18 make. So I take it the Court is suggesting that we did not 19 waive anything. 20 THE COURT: I'm not suggesting you waived anything. 21 Does the government want to be heard further on 1315, 22 1315C, or the underlying audio file? 23 MS. BAKER: No, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Let's bring in the jury. 25 (Jury present) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5939 49LMSAT2 1 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, let me take this 2 occasion just to give you some scheduling information. We will 3 break today at 3:45, and we will not sit on Monday. 4 In addition, there was a scheduling request for plans 5 in January and a request as to whether those plans could go 6 forward. And as I have told you before, when we started on 7 June the 21st, I said that the estimates would be for the trial 8 to last four to six months, which would take us to December 21, 9 and we are still very much within that schedule so that plans 10 could certainly be made for January. And I wanted to let you 11 know that. 12 Government. 13 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point we would ask 14 permission to play for the jury Government Exhibit 1220, which 15 is in evidence with the accompanying transcript, Government 16 Exhibit 1220X, on their screens, and we would ask that they be 17 asked to put on their headphones. 18 Your Honor, this is a call on January 8, 2001 at 4:17 19 p.m. involving Ahmed Abdel Sattar, an unknown female, and Lynne 20 Stewart. 21 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, because this is a 22 conversation in English, remember that the transcript is an aid 23 to your listening to the recording and you should apply my 24 instruction with respect to transcripts as an aid at this 25 point. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5940 49LMSAT2 1 MR. BARKOW: May we proceed, your Honor? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I think one of the juror's 4 headphones is not working. May I exchange it? 5 THE COURT: Yes, please. 6 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, may we start again? 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I think another juror -- 9 A JUROR: It is okay. 10 MR. BARKOW: I saw a juror waving. 11 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1220X in evidence, 12 displayed and played to the jury) 13 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, take off the 14 headsets and remember to turn them off. 15 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, at this time the government 16 requests permission to read and display for the jury Government 17 Exhibit 1221X. 18 Could Mr. Forkner again take the witness stand? 19 THE COURT: All right. 20 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, this is a call on January 8, 21 2001 at 8:02 p.m. between Ahmed Abdel Sattar -- and Mr. Forkner 22 will read that part as usual and I will read the part of Yassir 23 Al-Sirri. May we proceed? 24 THE COURT: Yes. 25 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1221X in evidence, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5941 49LMSAT2 1 displayed and read to the jury) 2 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will break for 3 lunch until 2:15. Please remember my continuing instructions. 4 Please don't talk about this case at all. Always remember to 5 keep an open mind. 6 All rise, please, and follow Mr. Fletcher to the jury 7 room. 8 (Jury not present) 9 THE COURT: Please be back by five after two. Have a 10 good lunch. 11 (Luncheon recess) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5942 49LMSAT2 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 2:20 p.m. 3 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I wanted to tell the Court I 4 passed up to Mr. Fletcher, and I gave a copy to all counsel, a 5 Xerox copy of a portion of a transcript from, I think, August 6 13 and then my letter, unsigned copy of it, relating to the 7 judicial notice on police day because when we get to one of the 8 calls this afternoon, 1225X, after that call we are going to 9 ask the Court to take the judicial notice of police day. So I 10 just copied the Court's comments as to the judicial notice and 11 my original letter and passed it up to the Court so the Court 12 can refer to it in taking the judicial notice. 13 THE COURT: Can you hold on one moment? 14 MR. BARKOW: Yes. 15 THE COURT: Can you bring in the jury. 16 MR. PAUL: Your Honor, may I have one second with the 17 government? 18 THE COURT: Absolutely. 19 (Jury present) 20 THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It 21 is good to see you all. 22 Government. 23 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, may Mr. Forkner step forward 24 as I go to the podium? 25 THE COURT: Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5943 49LMSAT2 1 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 2 requests permission to read and publish to the jury what is in 3 evidence as Government Exhibit 1222X. 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, this is a call on January 8 6 of 2001 at 10:07 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the lines of Ahmed 7 Abdel Sattar and I will read the lines of Rifa'i Ahmad Taha 8 Musa. 9 May we proceed? 10 THE COURT: Yes. 11 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1222X in evidence, 12 displayed and read to the jury) 13 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, at this point the government 14 requests permission to read and publish to the jury Government 15 Exhibit 1223X, which is in evidence. 16 THE COURT: All right. 17 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor this is a call on January 8 of 18 2001 at 10:56 p.m. Mr. Forkner will read the lines of Ahmed 19 Abdel Sattar and I will read the lines of Rifa'i Ahmad Taha 20 Musa. 21 May we proceed? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1223X, in evidence, 24 displayed and read to the jury) 25 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, at this time we would ask SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5944 49LMSAT2 1 permission to read and display for the jury Government Exhibit 2 1224X. 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, this is a call on 9, 2001 at 5 8:27 a.m. I will read the part of Esmat Salaheddin, Mr. Barkow 6 will read the part of Lisa Sattar, and Mr. Forkner will read 7 the part of Ahmed Abdel Sattar. May we proceed? 8 THE COURT: Yes. We have been going for some time. 9 Maybe we should take a stretch break. 10 You may proceed. 11 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1224X, in evidence, 12 displayed and read to the jury) 13 THE COURT: Since we are breaking at 3:45 today, why 14 don't we take a brief break at this point and then we will go 15 until 3:45. 16 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember my continuing 17 instructions not to talk about the case at all and keep an open 18 mind. 19 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 20 jury room. 21 (Jury not present) 22 THE COURT: See you shortly. 23 (Recess) 24 THE COURT: I understand there was a problem with the 25 computer screen for my clerk. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5945 49LMSAT2 1 MR. BARKOW: Yes, your Honor. My understanding is the 2 only screens that the problem occurred on was with your law 3 clerk's and what happened was, instead of seeing the 4 transcripts on the screen that the jury, the Court and everyone 5 else was seeing, they were seeing what was on the Elmo, which 6 was my hand and my notes. 7 THE COURT: It was an e-mail and the transcript? 8 MR. BARKOW: I had the transcript that we were reading 9 and also I have my e-mail which is basically a list of things 10 that we were going to do today that I E-mailed to my team and 11 my hand. 12 THE COURT: You're confident that that was not on 13 anyone else's screen? 14 MR. BARKOW: I've been told that the paralegals 15 checked and it was not anywhere else. 16 THE COURT: It was not on my screen and it was not on 17 the big screen. 18 MR. RUHNKE: It was not on our screens either, your 19 Honor. 20 THE COURT: None of the jurors indicated that they 21 were not seeing what they were -- 22 MR. BARKOW: No, your Honor. They didn't seem to be 23 looking as if anything was strange and I think they would think 24 this was strange. 25 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5946 49LMSAT2 1 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, just a reminder, after this 2 call is when we would like the Court to take judicial notice. 3 (Continued on next page) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5947 49LESAT3 1 THE COURT: Again, I called the break because it was 2 clear to me that some of the -- or at least one of the jurors 3 was saying something, so it was time to call the break. 4 (Continued on next page) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5948 49LESAT3 1 (In open court; jury present) 2 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. 3 All right. Mr. Dember? 4 MR. DEMBER: Yes, your Honor. At this time may we 5 read to the jury and display for them Government Exhibit 1225X. 6 And may Mr. Forkner resume his seat on the witness stand. 7 THE COURT: Yes. All right. 8 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, this is a call from 9 January 9, 2001, at 8:54 a.m. 10 The participants are Ahmed Abdel Sattar. Mr. Forkner 11 will, of course, read that part. And the other participant is 12 Yassir Al-Sirri, and I will read his part. 13 May we proceed. 14 THE COURT: Yes. 15 (At this point, Government Exhibit 1225X, in evidence, 16 was displayed and read to the jury) 17 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, at various times in 18 the course of the trial I've taken judicial notice of various 19 facts. And I will take judicial notice of the following facts 20 at this point: 21 On January 25 of each year in Egypt, the holiday, 22 quote, police day, unquote, is observed. The holiday 23 commemorates the death of a group of Egyptian police who died 24 while fighting the British armed forces in 1952. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, the same instruction that I've SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5949 49LESAT3 1 given you with other facts about which I've taken judicial 2 notice should apply here. Briefly, I have taken judicial 3 notice of certain facts which I believe are not subject to 4 reasonable dispute. I have accepted these facts to be true, 5 even though no evidence has been introduced proving them to be 6 true. You may but are not required to agree that these facts 7 are true. 8 All right. 9 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I'm not sure that we'll 10 finish the next call if we start it now. 11 THE COURT: All right. We can break for the day. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, we'll break for the day. Please 13 remember my continuing instructions. Please don't talk about 14 this case at all among yourselves or with anyone else until you 15 go home tonight. Please remember not to look at or listen to 16 anything to do with the case. If you see or hear something 17 inadvertently, simply turn away. 18 Always remember to keep an open mind until you've 19 heard all of the evidence, I've instructed you on the law, 20 you've gone to the jury room to continue your deliberations. 21 Have a good evening, and I look forward to seeing you 22 tomorrow at 9:30. 23 (Continued on next page) 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5950 49LESAT3 1 (In open court; jury not present) 2 THE COURT: All right. See you at 9:15. 3 MR. BARKOW: Can I just advise the Court of something. 4 Tomorrow I think we will probably begin publication 5 and presentation of the July 2001 prison visit at some point 6 tomorrow. And I just wanted to mention two things very 7 quickly. 8 We sent a letter to the Court, and I wanted the Court 9 to know we were probably going to get there tomorrow so the 10 Court might have it. We think we're going to get it tomorrow, 11 have it handy. 12 And secondly, we raised this issue with all counsel, 13 and it is the following: On Thursday we anticipate calling a 14 witness who's flying in, and we don't know how long it's going 15 to take to present the July 2001 prison visit. If this -- if 16 it turns out that it's going to occupy most of the day on 17 Thursday, I think that -- I've spoken to all counsel, they do 18 not have an objection to us putting this witness on in the 19 middle of that presentation so that the witness wouldn't have 20 to stay here until Tuesday in order to testify. 21 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 22 This is not the translator for the Taha -- 23 MR. BARKOW: No, your Honor, it's not. 24 THE COURT: Because it wasn't clear to me I could get 25 to the Taha book this week. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5951 49LESAT3 1 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I think what we'll do, I 2 mean, we'll have the witness come, and if the Court hasn't 3 ruled, then he'll come here and go back without testifying. 4 And if it's possible to rule, then that would be great. If 5 it's not, then obviously there's not that much time before next 6 week, so we understand that. 7 THE COURT: OK. 8 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, with respect to that, as far 9 as the Taha book is concerned, until we know -- speaking for 10 Ms. Stewart, what -- whether it's coming in and what, if any, 11 limiting instruction will be given about it or what portions 12 may be coming in, because there's always a possibility of 13 things being redacted, it's very difficult for me to know what 14 questions I should ask the translator on cross-examination. 15 For example, we've had -- we've had instances here in 16 which shadings of meaning in words have had some importance 17 with respect to particular statements. So I certainly have no 18 objection to the government proceeding as it -- you know, if 19 that's what the Court wants. But I would say that I'd hope the 20 translator would then be available for further 21 cross-examination, if necessary, based on the ruling on the 22 Taha book. Or perhaps I misunderstood Mr. Barkow's intention. 23 THE COURT: I think you did, i.e. he's going to wait 24 with the translator until I've ruled. 25 MR. TIGAR: Is that what he said? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5952 49LESAT3 1 MR. BARKOW: Yes. 2 MR. TIGAR: You see, that's the problem with my 3 hearing, your Honor. It dropped a syllable and I missed the 4 whole meaning. 5 THE COURT: It's all right. But you raised a fair 6 issue, even though it was in part of what was said, which was 7 the issue of redaction. 8 And my question -- I mean, Mr. Sattar's counsel is 9 going to give me a letter tonight. And the question is: Is it 10 really the government's contention that the entire book should 11 come in? 12 MR. BARKOW: Well, your Honor, our intention was to 13 admit the entire book and publish only parts of it. 14 THE COURT: But then -- 15 MR. BARKOW: But the -- 16 THE COURT: -- that leads to the question of why you 17 would do that. 18 MR. BARKOW: Because it's 360 to 380 pages long. And 19 so in order to publish any of it, we thought that we should 20 just publish part of it, because otherwise, to read it would 21 take two weeks, or two days. 22 THE COURT: But it's OK to say I should sit down and 23 read the whole book to make the determination of the 24 admissibility of the whole book? 25 MR. BARKOW: Well, your Honor, I don't think that -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5953 49LESAT3 1 THE COURT: And keep it on my night stand? I'm 2 serious, because it's not an answer to say, we're only going to 3 read a portion. The whole book is in evidence and the whole 4 book as translated will be in evidence so the jury can read the 5 whole book, follow through it. But if that's true, then I have 6 to do that -- 7 MR. BARKOW: Well, your Honor, I don't know -- 8 THE COURT: -- in response to an objection. 9 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, I don't know that the 10 defendants' objection is going to be that it should be broken 11 up. We produced this book to the defendants in substantially 12 final form, although we have produced additional translations 13 of it a very, very long time ago. And so they have had the 14 content of it. 15 I don't know that they're going to want to parse it. 16 And I would imagine that the parts that we want to publish are 17 probably the parts that we view as more probative and they may 18 view as more unfairly prejudicial. Instead of taking out the 19 parts that we don't seek to publish, would actually probably be 20 something that I would imagine defendants would not want 21 because those parts might lessen the power of the exhibit. 22 Not every line in this book is powerful and not every 23 line in the book speaks to Taha's views that -- as to who 24 should be killed, etc. A lot of it is quoting Islamic scholars 25 and the like. And so it's -- it would be my belief that the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5954 49LESAT3 1 defendants would want the things in there that we don't -- 2 aren't that interested in. 3 So I don't think -- unless the defendants are going to 4 ask the Court to review every line of the book, I don't think 5 that's going to be necessary, but I obviously would need to 6 hear what their position is before. 7 MR. FALLICK: Your Honor, our letter is in draft form 8 and ready when I get back to my office to be faxing it over to 9 the Court and to counsel. 10 We are also enclosing, for the Court's use, we have a 11 15-page summary of the book. And that might help the Court in 12 understanding the content of the book. 13 THE COURT: All right. Does your letter address the 14 issue of redactions for the book? 15 MR. FALLICK: There is a part that the Court would -- 16 might infer that we're asking for a redaction. It may not be 17 that specific, but I will change the language. 18 THE COURT: OK. I can reasonably assure you I will 19 not have an answer with respect to this tomorrow. 20 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, just so the Court is aware, 21 especially since Monday we're not going to be sitting and we 22 anticipate we're going to have some other evidence on Tuesday, 23 I didn't know when I sent the letter that we were going to be 24 off on Monday. And we can certainly, I think -- well, 25 certainly, we're very, very likely to make it through Tuesday. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5955 49LESAT3 1 We're getting to the end of our evidence but we're very likely 2 to be able to make it through Tuesday without getting to this 3 book. 4 But what we have left is we have a series of calls -- 5 the Court has a sense of that, the chronology -- the July 2001 6 prison visit, the Yousry search, the remaining publication of 7 Stewart's search evidence after the Court rules and a few 8 pieces of evidence that we didn't get to or didn't publish yet, 9 and that's it; a few witnesses that are brief, but that's it. 10 And so we are reaching what we think is the end of our case. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 MR. FALLICK: Your Honor, I have to be in the circuit 13 in the morning. Mr. Paul and Mr. Sattar obviously will be here 14 and they can continue with the reading of the transcripts. 15 THE COURT: OK. Thank you. 16 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, one of the points that we will 17 discuss in our discussion of the Taha book is that the 18 government is offering two -- not just one but two editions: 19 An old edition and a new edition. And they have various 20 highlightings and so on. And some of those differences are in 21 our view important to the evidentiary decision. 22 MR. BARKOW: Just to the extent anyone is going to be 23 reviewing this evidence, your Honor, I can set it forth in the 24 letter, but just to be clear, Exhibit 2700T is the translation 25 of the new or the recent version of the book. But it -- within SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5956 49LESAT3 1 it it indicates what is common to both books, the old version 2 and the recent version; what is unique to the new version, what 3 is unique to the old version or what is substantially identical 4 but changed slightly, either by being moved or being reworded. 5 So 2700T is really a self-contained translation of 6 the -- of both versions. 7 THE COURT: All right. 8 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, the government seeks to begin 9 tomorrow morning with presenting the telephone record analysis 10 which is reflected in the summary charts that have been marked 11 as Government Exhibits 1800A through 1800U. And we had 12 provided a copy to the Court that was unbound originally and 13 then it was slightly revised. And the stickers were actually 14 put on it and it was recopied and distributed to everyone in 15 the vello bound format. 16 As far as publishing that exhibit to the jury, we have 17 tried color scanning in to present it in the way that we've 18 presented most of our other exhibits, but it didn't color scan 19 properly. It's a little fuzzy and hard to read on the screen. 20 So we would ask instead, when that exhibit is received, to be 21 able to distribute to each of the jurors a vello bound copy in 22 exactly the same format as we have given it to the Court and 23 all defense counsel so that each juror can look at the document 24 individually. 25 We anticipate that while Agent Sorrels is on the stand SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5957 49LESAT3 1 explaining the preparation of the document and what it contains 2 and how it's organized, that we would refer to certain specific 3 parts of the document. But then we would ask that at the end 4 of Agent Sorrels' testimony, that the jurors then be given time 5 to essentially read through the document themselves, because we 6 think that that's the most efficient way for the jurors to be 7 able to see it clearly and for it to be published to them in 8 any immediate way. 9 MR. BARKOW: I'm sorry, your Honor. If I could tell 10 the Court one other thing about the Taha book. 11 I can deliver to the Court and to the parties a 12 marked-up version probably tonight of the parts that the 13 government will seek to publish. And if that would help the 14 Court in reviewing the book and focus the issues, that part 15 would be much easier for the Court to read and digest. 16 And if in the end the Court admits only those parts, 17 that wouldn't -- the government would not object to that, but I 18 imagine the defendants would because it removes them from 19 context. 20 THE COURT: Yes. You should give me the -- that 21 marked copy. And when will you have that? 22 MR. BARKOW: I can do that tonight, your Honor. We 23 can deliver it to chambers tonight. 24 THE COURT: Well, you have to deliver it to defense 25 counsel also. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5958 49LESAT3 1 And if defense counsel, you know, wanted to hold off 2 on the letter for another day, you could, or you could just 3 give me the letter and give me any response. 4 MR. FALLICK: Your Honor, I would rather hold off and 5 provide it to the Court tomorrow. 6 MR. BARKOW: OK. We will get it to counsel and we'll 7 speak with them now to see if we can get it to them tonight. 8 THE COURT: OK. All right. Anything else? 9 See you all tomorrow at 9:15. 10 (Adjourned to September 22, 2004, at 9:15 a.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 5959 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Examination of: Page 3 NABILA BANOUT 5917 4 Cross By Mr. Tigar . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5917 5 Redirect By Mr. Barkow . . . . . . . . . . . 5922 6 Recross By Mr. Tigar . . . . . . . . . . . . 5925 7 Redirect By Mr. Barkow . . . . . . . . . . . 5926 8 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS 9 Exhibit No. Received 10 1315 and 1315C . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5926 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300